UPDATE: Moving house - Europcar admin fee & awaiting NtH from Premier Parking Solutions HELP

OnTheRoadAgain2000

nosferatu1001 said:

- your understanding of timescales is not right. 
lease company has 28 days to respond to the PPC, and the PPC have 21 days to get the NtH to you. Obviously it cannot be concurrent - think about that for a second! They have to wait for leas co to give them your address. 
So youre not out of time yet. 
However
NO pPC EVER sends the requisite para 13 and 14 docs. NEWBIES thread instructs you on this. 
I've already told you how to dispute them. The T&C heading is FINES AND PENALTIES. Capitalised F and P. This is an invoice. It is neitehr a fine nor a penalty, and so nothing within that section can apply. 

Thank you for setting me straight. I think I read elsewhere on this or another forum about 14 days plus 21 days. I wasn't sure whether it would run concurrently for you logic you point out, but it was not unreasonable for me to ask that.
I have read the NEWBIES thread and will follow it to the letter if the NtK arrives.
I will try again with Europcar using a shorter to the point email about it being neither a fine nor a penalty, which I already made clear in my original complaint to them.

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Half_way said:

One quick, but important thing:
Stop calling it an offence, no offence occured, the driver broke no law.
It may sound pedantic, but it's important to use the right words, and avoid using the wrong ones especially when dealing with hire/lease companies and other third parties.

Thank you for pointing this out; I will keep it in mind.
I didn't use the word in my complaint to Europcar except when quoting their T&Cs and to said it was not an offence.

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Umkomaas said:

The timescales you quote are in the context of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) and the ability of the PPC to hold the keeper or the hirer liable for the charge. Failure to meet any of the deadlines does not make the parking charge void - and IPC members regularly pursue on the basis that the keeper/hirer was the driver unless proven otherwise. That will take a Judge to make a determination, and be contingent on you having a full knowledge of PoFA and its nuances and having the ability to argue them in front of the Judge ....... should it ever get to court. The PPC has 6 years to issue court proceedings. There is no quick or easy fix. 

Well, I'm hoping it won't ever get that far. I'm going to follow the POPLA process to the letter once I receive a NtH.
Just wanted to know if the time period was relevant as it seems a very long time from the date on the invoice.
Thanks

Redx

That is ok , point out their errors , no offence , no fine , no penalty , ask about bvrla deadlock resolution and insist on the fee being returned or waived or a chargeback may ensue

All they had to do is name the hirer and be out of it

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Redx said:

As above
POFA indicates the timescales for all parties so they still have time to issue the NTH but these companies usually fail POFA due to not including hire documentation
You have been told how to retrieve an unauthorised payment already , but it may end up being paid at the end
You haven't mentioned the bvrla option at all , or doggedly following plan A which is the best option in all cases
If the company have named you as hirer , day to day keeper , they have fulfilled their lawful obligations
As for your contract , contract law is complex so don't expect easy answers , only a judge can determine the legal outcome , if it gets that far
There is no easy fix due to all these complexities , each topic is complicated and complex , which is an even better reason not to use legal words like offence and fine , they do not apply in your case at all

Apologies.
I haven't mentioned the BVRLA option yet as I was just first getting a sense of my options. Europcar themselves sent me details of the BVRLA process. But I wanted some feedback on here before replying to Europcar and then going down the BVRLA route. But I will do that.
As for doggedly following plan A, do you mean what is in the NEWBIES thread? If so, I plan to doggedly follow that just as soon as a NtH arrives. At the moment I am just trying to get Europcar to cancel the £40 payment before they charge my credit car.
Thank you for flagging the use of offence and fine. But I have't use either word in my complaint to Europcar except to say the invoice is neither a fine nor an offence.
Thanks for all your help.

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Redx said:

That is ok , point out their errors , no offence , no fine , no penalty , ask about bvrla deadlock resolution and insist on the fee being returned or waived or a chargeback may ensue
All they had to do is name the hirer and be out of it

Thank you.
That is exactly what I will do. It is just all quite overwhelming for something so simple and there is a wealth of info out there.
Just trying to deal with it one step at a time. Europcar now and then the appeal process once NtH arrives.

Umkomaas

OnTheRoadAgain2000 said:

Umkomaas said:

The timescales you quote are in the context of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) and the ability of the PPC to hold the keeper or the hirer liable for the charge. Failure to meet any of the deadlines does not make the parking charge void - and IPC members regularly pursue on the basis that the keeper/hirer was the driver unless proven otherwise. That will take a Judge to make a determination, and be contingent on you having a full knowledge of PoFA and its nuances and having the ability to argue them in front of the Judge ....... should it ever get to court. The PPC has 6 years to issue court proceedings. There is no quick or easy fix. 

Well, I'm hoping it won't ever get that far. I'm going to follow the POPLA process to the letter once I receive a NtH.
Just wanted to know if the time period was relevant as it seems a very long time from the date on the invoice.
Thanks

But you have no access to POPLA as PPS are IPC AOS members. 

Redx

There is nothing simple about a hire vehicle PCN , which is why POFA has a special section on the topic and it has its own section at the bottom of post one of the newbies FAQ sticky thread

Good to hear you are aware of the various issues involved

I doubt you will stop the credit card transaction , but by all means dispute it

Once the NTH arrives in you name , plan A is best , without revealing who was driving , the royal WE will suffice

Ps , who mentioned popla ? 

Read what Umkomaas says above , so plan A

Note the IPC roundel at the bottom of your paperwork , this is also covered in the newbies FAQ sticky thread too

As I said , there is nothing simple about it

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Redx said:

There is nothing simple about a hire vehicle PCN , which is why POFA has a special section on the topic and it has its own section at the bottom of post one of the newbies FAQ sticky thread
Good to hear you are aware of the various issues involved
I doubt you will stop the credit card transaction , but by all means dispute it
Once the NTH arrives in you name , plan A is best , without revealing who was driving , the royal WE will suffice
Ps , who mentioned popla ? 
Read what Umkomaas says above , so plan A
Note the IPC roundel at the bottom of your paperwork , this is also covered in the newbies FAQ sticky thread too
As I said , there is nothing simple about it

Ah, okay. Clearly I need to go back over the NEWBIES thread with a fine-toothed comb.
From my brief read, I thought you appealed the charge to the provider and when they rejected you requested a POPLA code and went down that route.
I will read it again properly.

OnTheRoadAgain2000

Umkomaas said:

But you have no access to POPLA as PPS are IPC AOS members. 

I should have said, once I receive the NtH, I will follow the process laid out in the NEWBIES thread to the letter. Holding  too much info in my head. And for a begginer, just a little bit of info is dangerous.