Counter charging for PCN at small claims court

morganbach75

I can't find more than passing comment on this.
I responded to initial PCN online, stating it was flawed with practically no signage at entrance nor in bay (Parking Eye). In my statement I made clear that the appeal had taken valuable time, which I couldn't afford to lose and would charge any further chasing of the fine at my professional rate. All ignored (obviously) and now have a small claims case against me. I have written defence, but wondered if anyone has case examples of countercharging? Here's what I've written - 
Any thoughts ...

 Counter

In my statement of response (‘appeal’) to Parking Eye, I clearly set out that firstly they had provide no grounds for me to consider we had a valid contract, nor any reason to be corresponding; and that this exchange had take valuable time to read all correspondence and guidance suggested by them, consider the validity, gather evidence on site and compile a written response; time, which I could not afford professionally or personally, which should rightly be chargeable given Parking Eye’s error.

Notwithstanding this, I felt despite their error being costly to me, that as a measure of goodwill I would not pursue the costs set out in my statement, incurred due to their error, illustrated by setting out the hourly rate I had lost in the time taken, in so much as no further action was taken by Parking Eye or any of their representatives.

I did however clearly and unequivocally inform them in my written statement that should this matter be pursued having now been notified that this was a flawed claim, that I would be forced to charge them at my professional rate (included in the statement (appeal)), for both my initial response, but also any ongoing correspondence that followed and any costs reasonably attributed to defending this claim.

I noted that responding to my written submission (which by its nature had been considered) with anything other than a waiving of the claim would be considered written acceptance of my terms of business as set out in that response. (Exhibit 4)

To date I have received, read, consider and responded to the following written requests for payment and commencement of court proceedings, which are now payable by Parking Eye as follows: -

 

1/.  Parking Charge Notice June 27th 2020 (Exhibit 5) – Full written summary of case

90 Minutes

2/. Parking Charge Notice July 1st 2020 (Exhibit 6) – Reconsideration of case & written response

60 Minutes

3/. 12.8.20 – ‘Letter before County Claim’ Reference (Exhibit 7). – Reconsideration of case & written response

60 Minutes

4/. 21.9.20 - Claim Form:  Reading of forms & guidance, seeking clarification on process & legal guidance on response, detailing and compiling sequence of events and correspondence, costing and written response.

180 minutes

Total number of hours charged 390 minutes (6.5hours) at a rate of £70 per hour.

Total payment due £ 455

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

It really isn't wise to have your PCN reference number and your County Court Claim Number fully visible.
It compromises your privacy and also identifies you and this thread to the parking company.

It looks to me that you are considering a Counterclaim to recover costs. 
I don't believe that is the best way to do that, but I'll let others expand on that.

Redx

Your costs are the summary of costs firm that you include with your witness statement plus exhibits to your local court , in several months time !!

A counter claim is based on legal arguments such as data protection etc

KeithP

...and trying to recover costs at a rate of  £70.00 an hour will be difficult.

Half_way

£70 an hour? the maximum is no more than £19 per hour, and thats the top rate.

The most you shyould be expecting to claim would be the same sum that would put you in the same position if this never happened.

 If you can argue £19/hour then fair enough, but the main thing you need to do is come across as being reasonable and not out to make a profit from this/charge punitive costs even though thats what the other party ( the parking company are essentially doing)

 The only time you may be able to get a little more would be with clear cut GDPR breach, such as a double dip.

Big question: have you taken all reasonable steps to keep this out of court? have you contacted the landowner at any stage?

morganbach75

KeithP said:

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

It really isn't wise to have your PCN reference number and your County Court Claim Number fully visible.
It compromises your privacy and also identifies you and this thread to the parking company.

It looks to me that you are considering a Counterclaim to recover costs. 
I don't believe that is the best way to do that, but I'll let others expand on that.

Thanks for this - ref. noted and removed.
Issue date 21.9.20 ( understand I have 14 days to return). Wasn't sure as to whether stating this would be acceptance of a contract no less 'binding' than theirs, would constitute a 'cost'. I though that was just travel and legal fees. This was more ' I have a business, I am only willing to spend my time on this if you agree my rate (which has been £70 on private work). They replied and I have evidence this was part of the statement they 'considered'.
I've replied and appealed - I can't see contacting a third party would be resonably expected without being familiar with this process. I don't know who they are.
Thanks again

Umkomaas

Your chances of getting anything more than £95 towards half a day's pay/loss of leave (plus a bit of travel and parking if attending court in person) range somewhere between none and nil.  The more outrageous the amount, the more the chance of ending with nothing.  I'd concentrate on just winning your case and getting the monkey off your back, because ParkingEye are one of the hardest nuts to crack in court - ask Barry Beavis. 

KeithP

morganbach75 said:

KeithP said:

What is the Issue Date on your County Court Claim Form?

Issue date 21.9.20 ( understand I have 14 days to return).

You have more time than you think.

With a Claim Issue Date of 21st September, you have until Monday 12th October to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an AoS, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 26th October 2020 to file your Defence.

That's nearly four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

morganbach75

Ok. so defence is written. I will submit now without evidence at this point (court clerk advised I submitted with defence) and wait to hear whether it's pursued. Disappointing to hear they won't make good on the money I could have earned in those hours, but 'La legge, e legge', as they say. Will be interesting to hear what the £19 p/hour is based on, I may still counter with charges if they drop it, simply as if never challenged they will never stop.
Many thanks all, 

KeithP

morganbach75 said:

Ok. so defence is written I will submit now...

Do you think peer review might be useful?

morganbach75

KeithP said:

morganbach75 said:

Ok. so defence is written I will submit now...

Do you think peer review might be useful?

If willing - yes please.
>>
'I did park in the area referred to by Parking Eye Ltd. on the date and times shown above as stated by them.

Contrary to their claim however, on entering this apparently private road on a busy 4-way junction, there is no clear kerb-side signage, no road markings, any change in surfaces or any enclosure to indicate either the area I was entering or the specific bay in which I ultimately parked was itself private property, nor therefore the implied terms of charges or any contract. (Exhibit 1 & 2) (images)

Although there are signs displayed in specific areas with a range of different controls once within this side street, some were residents parking, double yellow lines, ‘no parking’ to ‘permit parking’ - all of which indicating there was no standard restriction and those that were restricted areas had seemingly been accounted for.  I therefore adhered to those signs and parked in an unmarked bay. (Exhibit 3)

I believe that both the status of private land and the tariffs or consequences of entering that land would need to be clearly visible from a drivers perspective either on entering or at the location itself, for this to be considered a valid, fair or legally binding contract.

Therefore, as neither the status of the land nor charges were clearly displayed from a drivers perspective, either on entering this land nor in the space in which I parked, this claim has no legal basis.

Moreover, at submission of my written response (supposed 'appeal') to Parking Eye, the above factors including images were submitted, demonstrating that there was in fact no clear signage in place in either key location and that this claim had therefore been mistakenly levied, on the misapprehension I had been properly notified. (Exhibit 4)

In response to my written response, no admission of errors, challenge to the factors I had raised, nor any explanation of why this claim remained valid were provided to me; again missing a further opportunity to correctly notify me of any valid reason for me to consider this a reasonable or contractual charge; nor to provide any grounds to settle any supposed debt. 

The lack of Parking Eye’s ability to address the factors I had raised, beyond restating their initial presumption of entering an leaving an area, provided me no grounds to accept that this was any more than a bogus claim, arbitrarily levied and being pursued, now in the full knowledge that it was fundamentally and legally flawed.'