Mileage discrepancy

daveyjp

You need to get the finance company involved.  At the moment it is their vehicle.

RHSum23

daveyjp said:

You need to get the finance company involved.  At the moment it is their vehicle.

The dealer has informed them apparently. They are part of the same motor group. We need the car back from WBAC, re-registered, taxed and insured, then we can speak to the finance company about trying to return it. I am worried they will re-value it. Not sure if they are allowed to do that legally. We’ve been paying over the odds every month as the car was expensive due to its supposedly low mileage. So would be nice to think they’d not make it any more costly for us. 

bazzyb

RHSum23 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I apologise - sorry - I misread the "BMW from a very large national (supposedly reputable) dealership" as being that the car was purchased from BMW.  Reading it again, that is clearly not what it says.

Hopefully, the fact the purchase was from a large dealership could be your salvation as they have the resources to correct the issue and reputation to protect.  That does not mean they won't put up a defence.

I am very confused about the WBAC delay in refusing the purchase.  I have never sold to them, but understood the time for them to do any checks was before handover - they are the big business with resources to do this, which you are not.  I thought the way they work was to give an online valuation, then you take the car in, they adjust for any extra damage or condition not as described on line, you give them the car, they pay straight away.  I am not an expert, but it may be that they don't have any further claim on you now (private seller) and you don't need to give them a refund / accept the car back.  The evidence they have produced shows it is not you that did the 'clocking' but you were not knowledgeable of that.  Others on here may know.

This could well still be a data error, but I am not sure how you get that assessed.  I am certain the condition of a 150k mile car would be noticeable from 30k mile car.

WBAC Ts&Cs mean they can change their mind due to the mileage issue. 

On what basis?

I sold a car to them in February and have just checked my paperwork, it says that the contract is binding when it is signed and they do all their checks beforehand. 

Furthermore, where it mentions mileage it specifically says:

to the best of your knowledge, information and belief ... the mileage reading on the Car is true and accurate and the odometer has not been tampered with

Check section 4 of your contract, I assume it won’t have changed significantly since then. You haven’t misled them in any way and I can’t see what basis they have to renege on the deal. 

RHSum23

bazzyb said:

RHSum23 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

I apologise - sorry - I misread the "BMW from a very large national (supposedly reputable) dealership" as being that the car was purchased from BMW.  Reading it again, that is clearly not what it says.

Hopefully, the fact the purchase was from a large dealership could be your salvation as they have the resources to correct the issue and reputation to protect.  That does not mean they won't put up a defence.

I am very confused about the WBAC delay in refusing the purchase.  I have never sold to them, but understood the time for them to do any checks was before handover - they are the big business with resources to do this, which you are not.  I thought the way they work was to give an online valuation, then you take the car in, they adjust for any extra damage or condition not as described on line, you give them the car, they pay straight away.  I am not an expert, but it may be that they don't have any further claim on you now (private seller) and you don't need to give them a refund / accept the car back.  The evidence they have produced shows it is not you that did the 'clocking' but you were not knowledgeable of that.  Others on here may know.

This could well still be a data error, but I am not sure how you get that assessed.  I am certain the condition of a 150k mile car would be noticeable from 30k mile car.

WBAC Ts&Cs mean they can change their mind due to the mileage issue. 

On what basis?

I sold a car to them in February and have just checked my paperwork, it says that the contract is binding when it is signed and they do all their checks beforehand. 

Furthermore, where it mentions mileage it specifically says:

to the best of your knowledge, information and belief ... the mileage reading on the Car is true and accurate and the odometer has not been tampered with

Check section 4 of your contract, I assume it won’t have changed significantly since then. You haven’t misled them in any way and I can’t see what basis they have to renege on the deal. 

WBAC are owned by an auction company. The car has been in the action house previously apparently, when it was at it’s original higher mileage level. That’s the first anyone picked up an issue. Section 4 of the contract states “we will be relying upon your representation that (iii) the mileage reading on the Car is true and accurate and the odometer has not been tampered with.... In the event that we discover (at any time) that any of the above representations are (or are likely to be) inaccurate, untrue or false then we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to withdraw any offer to buy the Car with immediate effect.” So we have had to just ask for it back.

born_again

ontheroad1970 said:

I'd be surprised if a major retailer would clock a car as clearly as that.  Perhaps it had an ECU replacement or dash replacement just before being auctioned, and there was an error in the input of the mileage.

6/05/15   6 miles (BMW Service)
16/12/16   97,788 (BMW)

04/07/17   123,675 (BMW)
29/11/17   139,547 (BMW)
01/05/18   156,259 (BVRLA which I think is a lease co., so lease car up to this point) 

02/08/18   31,156 (VOSA) (When we bought it)

Given OP said it was a P/X to dealer they bought it from. Odd's on it was that person that clocked it given the 3 month delay in the MOT being done.

RHSum23

born_again said:

ontheroad1970 said:

I'd be surprised if a major retailer would clock a car as clearly as that.  Perhaps it had an ECU replacement or dash replacement just before being auctioned, and there was an error in the input of the mileage.

6/05/15   6 miles (BMW Service)
16/12/16   97,788 (BMW)

04/07/17   123,675 (BMW)
29/11/17   139,547 (BMW)
01/05/18   156,259 (BVRLA which I think is a lease co., so lease car up to this point) 

02/08/18   31,156 (VOSA) (When we bought it)

Given OP said it was a P/X to dealer they bought it from. Odd's on it was that person that clocked it given the 3 month delay in the MOT being done.

And amazingly the dealer has given us his name!! What ever happened to GDPR?! They’ve tried calling him and apparently his dial tone suggests he’s abroad. I’ve tried searching for him online but not found him (fairly distinctive name). Not sure what I’d say if I did contact him. If he kept his invoice from where ever he bought it it would be interesting to know the stated mileage. The National Mileage Register will write to him as part of their investigation but if he’s out of the country they wont’t get a response any time soon. He’s a contender for the clocking, but there could have been another owner before him potentially.

Grumpy_chap

Given where this is now, it probably best not to contact the other individual directly.  Hard to see how any good would come of it - they are hardly likely to just offer you compensation.

RHSum23

Grumpy_chap said:

Given where this is now, it probably best not to contact the other individual directly.  Hard to see how any good would come of it - they are hardly likely to just offer you compensation.

Thanks and yep totally agree.

Herzlos

born_again said:

ontheroad1970 said:

I'd be surprised if a major retailer would clock a car as clearly as that.  Perhaps it had an ECU replacement or dash replacement just before being auctioned, and there was an error in the input of the mileage.

6/05/15   6 miles (BMW Service)
16/12/16   97,788 (BMW)

04/07/17   123,675 (BMW)
29/11/17   139,547 (BMW)
01/05/18   156,259 (BVRLA which I think is a lease co., so lease car up to this point) 

02/08/18   31,156 (VOSA) (When we bought it)

Given OP said it was a P/X to dealer they bought it from. Odd's on it was that person that clocked it given the 3 month delay in the MOT being done.

Is there any service history that'd corroborate the mileage? How worn is everything? Does it look like a 50k car or a 150k car?
Those mileages are huge - 5,146 miles/month between the first 2 mileages, then 3,235/month to the next, 3,968 to the next.

It'd presumably have needed timing belts done, lots of additional services and lots of wear and tear stuff.

Is there any chance that there has been some confusion between vehicles?

What did the service history / HPI look like when you bought it?

shinytop

Herzlos said:

born_again said:

ontheroad1970 said:

I'd be surprised if a major retailer would clock a car as clearly as that.  Perhaps it had an ECU replacement or dash replacement just before being auctioned, and there was an error in the input of the mileage.

6/05/15   6 miles (BMW Service)
16/12/16   97,788 (BMW)

04/07/17   123,675 (BMW)
29/11/17   139,547 (BMW)
01/05/18   156,259 (BVRLA which I think is a lease co., so lease car up to this point) 

02/08/18   31,156 (VOSA) (When we bought it)

Given OP said it was a P/X to dealer they bought it from. Odd's on it was that person that clocked it given the 3 month delay in the MOT being done.

Is there any service history that'd corroborate the mileage? How worn is everything? Does it look like a 50k car or a 150k car?
Those mileages are huge - 5,146 miles/month between the first 2 mileages, then 3,235/month to the next, 3,968 to the next.

It'd presumably have needed timing belts done, lots of additional services and lots of wear and tear stuff.

Is there any chance that there has been some confusion between vehicles?

What did the service history / HPI look like when you bought it?

I had a BMW 320 in which I did 45,000 miles a year for 4 years.  It looked and drove little different to when it was new - nothing looked worn.  It never needed anything except oil, tyres and brakes.  It's not always easy to tell on a decent car.