Mileage discrepancy

RHSum23

My husband purchased a used 15 reg BMW from a very large national (supposedly reputable) dealership in October 2018, using a finance agreement. The car had 31k miles when he purchased it, and last week he went to sell it (We Buy Any Car) and it had 52k miles. A few days later he was contacted by WBAC to say they couldn’t buy the car after all, due to a mileage discrepancy. We did a HPI check and the discrepancy is huge. In May 2015, so 3 months before he bought it, it had in fact already done 156k miles! We’ve contacted BMW to check the service history and they agree with the HPI mileage readings (there were several, so not just a one-off possible admin error), so it looks like it was clocked in the summer of 2018. We’ve complained the to dealership we bought it from. They’ve said “The HPI check we did was fine with no issues” (we’ve seen it, and it looks ok but was clearly a partial check, no doubt mainly on finance history). They also said “we couldn’t check the service history of the car as it would have meant contacting the manufacturer”. NB: BMW service history is electronic. I think they should have checked the history regardless! The dealer has asked the National Mileage Register to start an investigation, and will contact all previous keepers. Meanwhile we are trying to get the car back from WBAC, get it registered to my husband again, taxed, insured etc. We are devastated that the dealer isn’t acknowledging that they didn’t do the correct checks when selling us the car 2 years ago. Their website says that they check the service history. What action can we take with the dealer as we purchased in good faith? Do we have the right to challenge them? Please note the car is financed by the same company the dealership is part of. Our contract says we can “return the vehicle” which could be a way out of this mess, but we are also worried they will revalue the car in light of the mileage, despite the terms of the contract. Any advice appreciated.

Grumpy_chap

When you purchased the car from the BMW dealer, did they give any warranties about the mileage?

When you looked at the car, did the amount of wear and tear reflect a 30k car or 150k car?  At that type of discrepancy there would be significant visible signs of wear.  Shiny steering wheel, shiny pedals...

150k miles in three years suggests a company / fleet car.  The good thing is, that type of vehicle is usually maintained by the company without much focus on the cost of maintenance and usually at main dealers.  That means that BMW should be able to look back through their online records to give some verification of recorded mileage at service intervals.  Do you have a print out of the vehicle service log?  Alternatively, ask your local BMW dealer to provide this.
EDIT - I just re-read this and saw you already did that check.

What servicing did the BMW condition based servicing call for during your ownership?  Anything indicating the high mileage, or just the normal servicing for the mileage you believed you are at?

Unfortunately, the HPI check done by BMW is to protect BMW.  You would need to have done your own check at time of purchase to have any direct claim against BMW.

The good news is you bought a used BMW from a BMW dealership, so BMW goodwill may come into it's own.  Hold fire for the time being and a suitable resolution may come out of this.  There could still be a 'data error' that accounts for it - maybe your car is AB15CDE and the data is for AB15CDF, or something similar?

In the mean time, WBAC need to return the car if they are not completing the purchase.  Don't they complete the purchase at time of taking the car and the time for them to verify anything is before that handover?

burlingtonfl6

Grumpy_chap said:

When you purchased the car from the BMW dealer, did they give any warranties about the mileage?

When you looked at the car, did the amount of wear and tear reflect a 30k car or 150k car?  At that type of discrepancy there would be significant visible signs of wear.  Shiny steering wheel, shiny pedals...

150k miles in three years suggests a company / fleet car.  The good thing is, that type of vehicle is usually maintained by the company without much focus on the cost of maintenance and usually at main dealers.  That means that BMW should be able to look back through their online records to give some verification of recorded mileage at service intervals.  Do you have a print out of the vehicle service log?  Alternatively, ask your local BMW dealer to provide this.
EDIT - I just re-read this and saw you already did that check.

What servicing did the BMW condition based servicing call for during your ownership?  Anything indicating the high mileage, or just the normal servicing for the mileage you believed you are at?

Unfortunately, the HPI check done by BMW is to protect BMW.  You would need to have done your own check at time of purchase to have any direct claim against BMW.

The good news is you bought a used BMW from a BMW dealership, so BMW goodwill may come into it's own.  Hold fire for the time being and a suitable resolution may come out of this.  There could still be a 'data error' that accounts for it - maybe your car is AB15CDE and the data is for AB15CDF, or something similar?

In the mean time, WBAC need to return the car if they are not completing the purchase.  Don't they complete the purchase at time of taking the car and the time for them to verify anything is before that handover?

I'm not 100% sure it was a BMW dealer. The OP doesn't say it was in their post.

daveyjp

A BMW dealership would do a full check.  They wouldn't sell a vehicle with 150k on the clock and if they found it had been clocked definately wouldn't go near it, that's probably why it ended up outside of the dealer network.

RHSum23

@Grumpy_chap Thanks however it wasn’t purchased through BMW. It was purchased through another dealership. I am also surprised it took WBAC 4 days to spot the issue. Apparently it was only spotted by the auction house they took it to. I feel like we’ve been scammed. The dealership in question is pretty big in the used car sector (32 branches across the country I think) but aren’t doing proper checks. Its clearly not the dealer that clocked it, but surely they should have checked the service history before selling the car if that’s what they claim they do on their website.

Grumpy_chap

I apologise - sorry - I misread the "BMW from a very large national (supposedly reputable) dealership" as being that the car was purchased from BMW.  Reading it again, that is clearly not what it says.

Hopefully, the fact the purchase was from a large dealership could be your salvation as they have the resources to correct the issue and reputation to protect.  That does not mean they won't put up a defence.

I am very confused about the WBAC delay in refusing the purchase.  I have never sold to them, but understood the time for them to do any checks was before handover - they are the big business with resources to do this, which you are not.  I thought the way they work was to give an online valuation, then you take the car in, they adjust for any extra damage or condition not as described on line, you give them the car, they pay straight away.  I am not an expert, but it may be that they don't have any further claim on you now (private seller) and you don't need to give them a refund / accept the car back.  The evidence they have produced shows it is not you that did the 'clocking' but you were not knowledgeable of that.  Others on here may know.

This could well still be a data error, but I am not sure how you get that assessed.  I am certain the condition of a 150k mile car would be noticeable from 30k mile car.

RHSum23

Grumpy_chap said:

I apologise - sorry - I misread the "BMW from a very large national (supposedly reputable) dealership" as being that the car was purchased from BMW.  Reading it again, that is clearly not what it says.

Hopefully, the fact the purchase was from a large dealership could be your salvation as they have the resources to correct the issue and reputation to protect.  That does not mean they won't put up a defence.

I am very confused about the WBAC delay in refusing the purchase.  I have never sold to them, but understood the time for them to do any checks was before handover - they are the big business with resources to do this, which you are not.  I thought the way they work was to give an online valuation, then you take the car in, they adjust for any extra damage or condition not as described on line, you give them the car, they pay straight away.  I am not an expert, but it may be that they don't have any further claim on you now (private seller) and you don't need to give them a refund / accept the car back.  The evidence they have produced shows it is not you that did the 'clocking' but you were not knowledgeable of that.  Others on here may know.

This could well still be a data error, but I am not sure how you get that assessed.  I am certain the condition of a 150k mile car would be noticeable from 30k mile car.

WBAC Ts&Cs mean they can change their mind due to the mileage issue. Clearly they didn’t do a proper check either. But more more frustrated with the dealer than with WBAC. I don’t really understand what the National Mileage Register investigation will prove, and whether it will help us. All I know is the dealer have said they have to wait for the investigation to be completed. Seems pointless now we have the BMW service history. No wonder cars are clocked if it’s this easy to buy and sell them without anyone realising for years. I’m wondering whether we can take legal action against the dealer. The car looked in excellent condition so didn’t occur to us for a moment it wasn’t at 31k miles. 

AdrianC

RHSum23 said:

Our contract says we can “return the vehicle” which could be a way out of this mess

Can you give a bit more detail about this...?

What contract, with who, and what does it say?

It seems to me that the simplest way out of this would be for the dealer you bought the car from to buy it back from you at a price commensurate with what you believed to be the accurate mileage - so pay you for a 52k 5yo car. You already have an agreed figure that you would be happy with for the car - that paid by WBAC before they discovered the discrepancy.

You've clearly had two years and 21k of use out of the car in a manner which hasn't caused you to be suspicious about the previous history...

Alter_ego

MOT history may reveal when it was clocked.

daveyjp

15 reg bought in 2018, odds on it was clocked shortly before the first MOT.

RHSum23

AdrianC said:

RHSum23 said:

Our contract says we can “return the vehicle” which could be a way out of this mess

Can you give a bit more detail about this...?

What contract, with who, and what does it say?

It seems to me that the simplest way out of this would be for the dealer you bought the car from to buy it back from you at a price commensurate with what you believed to be the accurate mileage - so pay you for a 52k 5yo car. You already have an agreed figure that you would be happy with for the car - that paid by WBAC before they discovered the discrepancy.

You've clearly had two years and 21k of use out of the car in a manner which hasn't caused you to be suspicious about the previous history...

If I name the company will that affect our complaint do you think? It might help me explain more clearly.