First Steps to Solvency

alt80

@theoretica yeah she knows what’s on my list, things to look forward too. She has one too, lots of things on there and I’m not saying I’m going to buy myself watches without her having anything - that’s the future though. I’m really not justifying my own wishes at the expense of hers. I know I’ve not been good to my family in the past it’s a time I find painful to look back on, still engaging with professionals in the hope I might walk out of it if I put the effort in a half decent human being stranger things have happened lol.

I need to try to park the res home I know. Had the whole chat about why would I ever think where I live is not good enough/ nothing better than the last payment/ why do I want to take on a much larger ‘burden’ as my FIL calls it from my in-laws lead to the I put myself under too much pressure/ constant stress no good for health etc etc idk. Possibly is all I know and I’m afraid to not have some level of commitment or something does just seem a waste to not be going for it once I’ve got my Range Rover paid. £2.5-3k/m is less than current res mortgage + Range Rover + cards would still have a little to keep retained and be up a level home wise.

@enthusiasticsaver she didn’t grow up in the city, in-laws live a bit further out mixed area parts are rough and others are really nice like most other places so if what you were asking was ‘how council is my Mrs’ the answer is not very. Rest of her family including the women work in professional / government jobs apart from her mum who was always at home. Her family is probably a lot more similar to you/ yours than mine fwiw my mum is !!!!!! livid my sister hasn’t progressed her career as she should have. Not the case in all working class families, granted but similarly there’s a certain comfort in middle class families that just isn’t there for those of us who’ve had to build up from nothing. 

Have given me something to think about in terms of going down the pocket money route for the Mrs what is it actually for. No way could it could hair and beauty that averages c£150/m on its own. Presents we have our own budget for. Was more just thinking for her clothes etc idk yet. 

@warby68 tbh one of the reasons I’ve massively resisted her having pocket money/ keeping nails money is I want her to see the money she earns goes towards contributing to the household. I’m trying to demonstrate we have obligations to meet I’m done with the treating her like a princess which I did and am guilty for. As much issues in my own head paranoid she’d leave if I said no, didn’t treat her etc etc. I’m not even sure why I couldn’t just tell her I wasn’t in a position to afford some of the lifestyle, fear of losing her and know it sounds like an excuse but I think my addiction contributed to it; I do feel different when I stay well away for a length of time.

My wife is a brilliant mum but her indulgence of him does concern me, didn’t used to but does now as I say I don’t want him being that kid who can’t make a sandwich or function without mum haha.

@RelievedSheff depends on how you define success surely mate.

strawb_shortcake

My Son's year book last year, one of the votes was for "Most likely to be a WAG" so not sure just how much things have moved on.  I'm not sure how the parents of that the girl that won that title felt, but I think I'd have felt some disappointment if others perceived my Daughter in that way.

warby68

I understand wanting wife to contribute (and also to feel she contributes) but with the nail money very modest and her not even able to keep a one month promise the allowance feels like a first step in a bigger process. Her having the nail money for herself might (hopefully) enocurage her to push that a bit more. You can both have the same allowance. You don't want to spend at the moment so you can show you're saving yours. Another thing she's never done. Don't call it pocket money. Many couples have personal spends out of the joint pot. When you've 'saved' a lump sum you can choose to put it to debt and show her that you really are prioritising the future over yourself. Plus, she IS contributing with the ongoing sale of her personal items and the numbers there have not been small.

Keep the talk about future big ticket items to a minimum. That's been said to you before but as @getmore4less says you take quite a while to take things on.

Your wife has just got a £70k car to play with, and a nifty little sports car before that, but they've barely registered before she's back to personal spends on stuff she doesn't need and promised not to. She needs to feed her own addiction. It isn't going to come voluntarily or easily as she's still in the denial phase about her own behaviours, preferring to lump it all on you. Even if she can't fix the spending she needs to downgrade it. She still wants to spend like you did before with a £5k pm defict, that isn't coming back. Many of the diaries show people unable to stop frittering but they do manage to have a budget for it and keep to that.

I hope you get over your fear of her leaving. You always put her on a pedestal and say you don't understand why she settled for you. I won't be alone in saying its just as easy to ask why you settled for her. She really isn't too good for you and you really aren't beneath her as she likes to emotionally blackmail you with. You are partners bringing different things and whilst it isn't fair to blame each other for the life you think you could have had with someone else it is fair to expect both of you to respect the other. As far as we can see you give her far more credit than she gives you. Yes, addiction got in the way bigtime but she has chosen to stay with you. She can't stay and then also beat you up forever. She has to be your partner, very different but nonetheless equal.

Long essay for early morning sorry and, as usual, well done on the day count. Must be 100 soon. I don't come to the diaries any more expecting you to have had a relapse. Usually read with a smile now especially with how you're handling the various challenges.

enthusiasticsaver

I think @warby68 makes some good points that you might equally ask why did you settle for your wife as why she would settle for you. Hopefully there is a love and affection between you of course but just as she knocks your earning power you could equally ask her what she brings to the table. I would also say don’t call it pocket money but maybe personal spends. Our way of stopping me being irritated by my husbands frittering is that we both had the personal spends so I no longer feel the need to question where the £100 spend went when i felt it was a waste of money. That is only to cover clothes and hobbies and hairdressers, beauty treatments etc. No doubt he also felt the £50 I spend on my hair was a waste where he spends £5 but he never questions it as he doesn’t monitor our budget. If he did we would still be working now which he acknowledges.

From the sound of it your wife is not like the rest of her family at all then? Even though her mum was a SAHM presumably your FIL  was not buying her designer brands etc so maybe she is really a product of her generation and her peers were similar in that clothes, make up and social media influencers were her world. It is difficult to see how you got together in the first place when from all accounts you were busy working all hours building up your business. Whatever her failings in keeping her spending down though she has proved a supportive wife and loving (if sometimes too indulgent) mother and obviously works hard at home given the amount she does to keep your house, cars and garden maintained. I have never heard you mention cleaners or gardeners in your budget so presumably she does do most things at home. She also has achieved her goal in life which is essentially to be a kept woman although maybe the budget is now more constrained this is where she feels cheated. I can see why she is getting mixed messages though if you are talking about moving to a much better property (which she doesn’t feel necessary)  and spending hundreds of thousands of pounds whilst berating her for a hundred pound hairbrush. From your point of view the designer hairbrush is a waste of money (IMO too) but in her opinion moving to a more expensive property is a waste as she is happy there. This again may be the difference because you are in property. To you your house is an asset and the value of it matters to you as a bench mark of how far you have come. To your wife (and a lot of the rest of us) it is a home she feels happy with. She would rather any spare income goes on lifestyle. This is something you will need to agree on. Is this lifestyle permanent and you will always be questioning her personal spending or will the spending be loosened when the debt goes and the RR paid for? If you take on a bigger/more expensive  property that means higher mortgage (interest rates may not always remain low) and more maintenance. After all if she is expected to clean a larger property that may be when she rebels at doing all the housework especially if she no longer has the means to spend as much as she wants. 

You are right in that if you come from a middle class background as I do there is a certain expectation that we will do well in life. We all want to be successful but how it is defined is a movable feast so to speak.  My objectives would be a career I enjoyed and a job which felt worthwhile with a salary which led to a comfortable lifestyle. It includes  a level of wealth I am comfortable with and sufficient to cover our lifestyle (but in cash/investments not property) and a nice comfortable house in a good area.   I don’t want a mansion though as I would have to do more cleaning which I hate (necessary but not enjoyable) and it would cost too much to heat and maintain. It helps that our lifestyle is not what I consider would be ostentatious. I am not bothered about designer stuff (barring my Radley bags) but still meals out, our country club membership and nice holidays still cost money but a lot of things I enjoy doing like coastal walking, reading and cycling cost almost nothing. All of that is probably a low bar for you and that is fine. You obviously have a drive that I lack and that might be why you started your own business. I would not want the stress of that. 

Whew that is a bit of an essay. Just random musings. 

theoretica

It seems to me that for a future spending list to be effective as motivation the reward needs to be something that is *really* wanted.  Enough that buying the shiny thing in front of you now and postponing the future spending doesn't seem attractive.  But a wishlist of things that aren't your true hearts desire is easy to postpone in the face of present temptation. 

Also - future spending 'as something to look forward to' perpetrates the idea that spending is pleasant and not spending at the moment is a hardship.  While, as you are discovering, it is quite possible to find a life where not spending as much is not a hardship.  Otherwise it is a bit like being on a diet and planning a wonderful meal as a reward for losing weight - you think too much about eating as a reward and it is self defeating.

HoneyRoastedParsnip

Good evening, my first post on your diary after reading to catch up. Well done on the journey so far. Be really careful now about relapses - it is too easy to think you've cracked it and get complacent. Trust me on that! On pocket money and 'leveling up'. Right now I am working 12 hours on/12 hours off, offshore, haven't been home since April and won't be home until December. I can't wait to see my boys, go biking in the woods and hear them breathlessly explain their latest Roblox builds. While the below is internet rubbish I thought it was quite apt.

A man came home from work late, tired and irritated, to find his 8-year old son waiting for him at the door.
Son: Daddy, may I ask you a question?
Dad: Yeah sure, what it is? replied the man…
Son: Daddy, how much do you make an hour?
Dad: That’s none of your business. Why do you ask such a thing? the man said angrily.
Son: I just want to know. Please tell me, how much do you make an hour?
Dad: If you must know, I make £50 an hour.
Son: Oh, the little boy replied, with his head down.
Son: Daddy, may I please borrow £25?

The father was furious, “If the only reason you asked that is so you can borrow some money to buy a silly toy or some other nonsense, then you march yourself straight to your room and go to bed. Think about why you are being so selfish. I don’t work hard every day for such childish frivolities.”

The little boy quietly went to his room and shut the door.

The man sat down and started to get even angrier about the little boy’s questions. How dare he ask such questions only to get some money?

After about an hour or so, the man had calmed down, and started to think:
Maybe there was something he really needed to buy with that £25.00 and he really didn’t ask for money very often. The man went to the door of the little boy’s room and opened the door.

“Are you asleep, son?” He asked.

“No daddy, I’m awake,” replied the boy.

“I’ve been thinking, maybe I was too hard on you earlier,” said the man. “It’s been a long day and I took out my aggravation on you. Here’s the £25 you asked for…”

The little boy sat straight up, smiling. “Oh, thank you, daddy!” he yelled. Then, reaching under his pillow he pulled out some crumpled up bills.

The man saw that the boy already had money, started to get angry again.

The little boy slowly counted out his money and then looked up at his father.

“Why do you want more money if you already have some?” the father grumbled.

“Because I didn’t have enough, but now I do,” the little boy replied.
“Daddy, I have £50 now. Can I buy an hour of your time? Please come home early tomorrow. I would like to have dinner with you.”

The father was crushed. He put his arms around his little son, and he begged for his forgiveness.

alt80

Day 98 / 14 weeks today. 100% hear you @HoneyRoastedParsnip re relapse, wouldn’t be the first time can tell you that much. Doing everything I can to ensure I don’t get complacent about it, made that mistake before.

Went a bit crazy with the work today started 7.30am finished about 30 minutes ago did have an hour lunch and hour dinner. 

@annabanana82 haha thought that was quite funny but also iswyacf re the parents. 

@warby68 Thank you, iswyacf and I acknowledge the contribution she has made through sales, she knows that. I want her to make a lifestyle change and I’m the last who needs to be told that you can only make the change when you want to and are ready to with help from others. Personal spends I don’t really know what it would be for really as I said before can’t include the hair/ beauty etc. I’m concerned she’ll just constantly go over the allocated amount and I’ll wind up ‘rescuing’ the mess tbh.

You’re right re the cars not really registering things like houses/ cars etc big things don’t really register for her it’s just things I buy that she can also enjoy lol. I mention the EQC and I get the it’s my business’s etc magic money tree again ha. As for the MG haha funny you should mention that she sent me another set of wheels for it today thinks they’d look nice all very !!!!!! hint hint let’s buy the wheels haha. Told her she can buy those the month after we paid for the car. Won’t be for a while. 

@enthusiasticsaver I do want to know what she’s spending on and if it is rubbish or not tbf. 

She does do a lot at home and my comm office; cleaning, cars, garden and general maintenance. She’s quite good in that regard, knows what she’s doing and does a lot more than other people I know with a wife at home tbf to her. She isn’t really like the rest of her family and they acknowledge they massively indulged her which they didn’t with the others. 

I don’t understand how you can equate her wasting cash to me buying property, that’s ridiculous tbh. More lifestyle / loosening spending generally not in my plan after my RR is paid for it either goes on a res mortgage or stays retained. I’m fed up wasting my money. Now on I don’t waste it - the things I have in my list to buy aren’t things that are worthless pieces of tat. Yeah I’ll still dress well and dress her well but it’s one in one out.

I’m not blind to what you’re implying in the last but one paragraph and the kind of snobbery only really found in middle England. I spent most of my formative years growing up in that sort of place. My sister and I were the ‘rough kids’ from the pub with the dad vulgar enough to drive a knackered old Bentley. Quite aware plenty told their kids to reconsider their friendships to us.

alt80

@theoretica I’m not really sure your point read through a few times now - my understanding of the point you’re trying to make is I should not be considering buying anything in the future because I should consider spending a hardship than something pleasant? I don’t want to stop enjoying nice things, what’s the point in working hard to never buy anything nice again? Yeah I’m on the payback now but once that is done I can be drawing less from the business on a month to month basis, time to consider purchases before buying and if I want to draw additional income to pay for the nice thing. Gives me chance to think and if I don’t buy money stays in the business win win to me.

@HoneyRoastedParsnip I wasn’t really ‘there’ for my family before lockdown 1 tbh mate. Hadn’t really spent much time with my Mrs until then really either. Was really nice tbf I got to know her and my son. Do spend a lot more time with family post lockdown tbf but I’m not ready to give up on life.

ladyholly

alt80 said:

@HoneyRoastedParsnip I wasn’t really ‘there’ for my family before lockdown 1 tbh mate. Hadn’t really spent much time with my Mrs until then really either. Was really nice tbf I got to know her and my son. Do spend a lot more time with family post lockdown tbf but I’m not ready to give up on life.

How do you equate spending time with your wife and son as giving up on life. ?

warby68

The point with the allowance is to set it up so she CAN'T overspend - either a preloaded card or a bank account which is fed once a month with no overdraft. Then fingers in your ears to the whingeing. That's also why it needs to be a reasonable amount.

Your method isn't working and you've tried for a while now. Of course you can include hair and beauty - if she spends that amount on something else, hard luck. It should be for all her personal spending, clothes, beauty, socials that are not family. It doesn't mean you can't buy her extra once in a while.

In your responses there is also an awful lot of 'I' and how you want things to be. She needs to have a say as well if you're going to move to more of a partnership. If she doesn't want to move and you do and she wants handbags over retained etc. I know its your money, your earnings but until you can say 'we' a bit more there's going to be a lot of conflict. On the one hand you are giving her a lot of rope and hoping she changes by herself but on the other saying exactly how it will be in the future with no say for her. Its quite contradictory. As is wanting to be in on every spend but then hoping she won't do it.