First Steps to Solvency

theoretica

The thing that strikes me about your wife is that basing her self worth on looks (and especially youthful looks) is just as untenable in the long run as basing it on spending.  Maybe she too would benefit from counselling - but of course she would need to want to make the changes.  The other thought is the friends of mine who have the best social media posts aren't the people picturing the most expensive stuff, but the best photographers.  They can make a daily local walk or an ordinary city park and a pond with a few ducks look fabulous.  I am sure she has seen the postings that reveal how much of photos is art rather than reality, but she seems to be trying to compete with reality.

I agree with others about your son - you both need to think about raising him to be a successful and contented adult as well as enjoying his childhood.  It sounds like she has all the emphasis at the moment on his childhood.

getmore4less

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77893439/#Comment_77893439

Makeup etc. - she’s on no new makeup spends for 3 months she’s ok with it 

4 days ago it was no make up spends for 3 months 

Now it is back upto £150

Purplelady65

PS I meant to mention in my previous post. I thought the money your wife was earning from doing nails (£275 a month) was for make-up? So is the make-up budget now £275 + £150? I personally think any money she earns should go into the central pot and she should look at earning and contributing more to the family finances. I don’t think not working from the age of 20 has done her any favours at all. I know you said she did help out in the business previously but it’s not the same as going out and getting a job. Yes, she might do stuff around the house and be into fitness but most of us fit these things around working. She’s obviously got time on her hands if she’s doing all these IG videos. 

RelievedSheff

getmore4less said:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/77893439/#Comment_77893439

Makeup etc. - she’s on no new makeup spends for 3 months she’s ok with it 

4 days ago it was no make up spends for 3 months 

Now it is back upto £150

It should be no make up spends at all and a complete ban from IG with her behaviour. If she wants to act like a child treat her like one.

Whatlifeis

I don’t post very often but I’m de-lurking for this one as it’s something I know a bit about.

Around 15 years ago my husband and myself were in a very similar situation to yours. Big income from our main business (which subsequently crashed, which is why I’m on here, but I digress) and I was the somewhat (un)glamorous wife looking after the kids at home. Back then Instagram wasn’t a thing, but blogging was. I started blogging for much the same reasons as your wife is on Instagram, and like her, I became pretty addicted to it. I loved the feedback, the image I portrayed, the likes, the connections, then “friends”. I loved having followers and being popular, and I especially loved how I felt when I portrayed that “persona” online. The blog grew over the course of several years and was very successful in its day. It also soaked up a huge amount of money for “products” to further the image, to fund the blog’s popularity. It was a brand in itself and became something I was very proud of. In the end I closed it because I was burnt out and exhausted. “Feeding the blog” eventually transcended everything. Every third post required a new “product” (clothes, make-up etc) in order to feed the followers. Every post became a “story” in itself that required funding of some sort. Instagram and becoming an influencer is just the modern day version of that.

Before you judge your wife too harshly, please realise that this is exactly what FB wants. The algorithms are designed to promote exactly this. It’s not your wife’s fault – her online persona is bigger than her, and building her brand will become incredibly important to her. Like I did, she may even feel that growing her brand is actually her business. Certainly it is possible to make money doing this for a living if you work hard enough. My blog made a good profit in year 3 onwards, and I know of many blogger friends who carried on and made highly successful businesses out of theirs.

I guess what I’m saying is that you both seem to be at a crossroad of sorts. I do not think it will be at all easy for your wife to give up Instagram. Her persona is part of who she is, it’s her business and it can definitely be successful. If she quits (because you want her to, or if you feel it is unhealthy for your relationship) she might bitterly resent it and it could come between you. It sounds like she’s working extremely hard to build her online presence, and it’s something you might like to consider as a potential business direction rather than seeing her as not working at all.

So what next? Well, it’s something you both need to talk about between yourselves. If she wants to build her online business brand and make this her future business, then it might well be possible for you to budget a certain monthly amount for products to post about, review etc. You are an experienced businessman, you can help her with this and help her draw up a business plan and budget. Ultimately, she could make a pretty decent living out of this but she will need help and support from you if she’s running it as a business, and you’ll have to prepare for a couple of years of losses before you see any return on your investment. She could register as self-employed perhaps, and then her make-up/clothes costs etc could be seen as business expenses. Again it’s very possible, because I’ve done it. But like my husband was, you both need to be on board with this and plan accordingly. Every new business needs investment and as Theoretica says, you need very good photography.

But something to consider perhaps.

ryanm8655

Whatlifeis said:

I don’t post very often but I’m de-lurking for this one as it’s something I know a bit about.

Around 15 years ago my husband and myself were in a very similar situation to yours. Big income from our main business (which subsequently crashed, which is why I’m on here, but I digress) and I was the somewhat (un)glamorous wife looking after the kids at home. Back then Instagram wasn’t a thing, but blogging was. I started blogging for much the same reasons as your wife is on Instagram, and like her, I became pretty addicted to it. I loved the feedback, the image I portrayed, the likes, the connections, then “friends”. I loved having followers and being popular, and I especially loved how I felt when I portrayed that “persona” online. The blog grew over the course of several years and was very successful in its day. It also soaked up a huge amount of money for “products” to further the image, to fund the blog’s popularity. It was a brand in itself and became something I was very proud of. In the end I closed it because I was burnt out and exhausted. “Feeding the blog” eventually transcended everything. Every third post required a new “product” (clothes, make-up etc) in order to feed the followers. Every post became a “story” in itself that required funding of some sort. Instagram and becoming an influencer is just the modern day version of that.

Before you judge your wife too harshly, please realise that this is exactly what FB wants. The algorithms are designed to promote exactly this. It’s not your wife’s fault – her online persona is bigger than her, and building her brand will become incredibly important to her. Like I did, she may even feel that growing her brand is actually her business. Certainly it is possible to make money doing this for a living if you work hard enough. My blog made a good profit in year 3 onwards, and I know of many blogger friends who carried on and made highly successful businesses out of theirs.

I guess what I’m saying is that you both seem to be at a crossroad of sorts. I do not think it will be at all easy for your wife to give up Instagram. Her persona is part of who she is, it’s her business and it can definitely be successful. If she quits (because you want her to, or if you feel it is unhealthy for your relationship) she might bitterly resent it and it could come between you. It sounds like she’s working extremely hard to build her online presence, and it’s something you might like to consider as a potential business direction rather than seeing her as not working at all.

So what next? Well, it’s something you both need to talk about between yourselves. If she wants to build her online business brand and make this her future business, then it might well be possible for you to budget a certain monthly amount for products to post about, review etc. You are an experienced businessman, you can help her with this and help her draw up a business plan and budget. Ultimately, she could make a pretty decent living out of this but she will need help and support from you if she’s running it as a business, and you’ll have to prepare for a couple of years of losses before you see any return on your investment. She could register as self-employed perhaps, and then her make-up/clothes costs etc could be seen as business expenses. Again it’s very possible, because I’ve done it. But like my husband was, you both need to be on board with this and plan accordingly. Every new business needs investment and as Theoretica says, you need very good photography.

But something to consider perhaps.

From what the OP says she has no desire to build a business or build a following, she is just seeking to portray a lifestyle to her immediate circle and relishing in their perceptions of her. I think there is a difference between developing content to appeal to a market than there is bragging to your friends about how much stuff you got for Christmas, while feigning some kind of modesty in solidarity with those less fortunate (who must also have been naughty as children).

alt80

Virtual Boxing Day lunch with in-laws wasn’t great. They aren’t happy with her and also have now seen her IG posts via one of their other children. All so close they know the exact reason why our Christmas spending was much less than usual and FIL is absolutely furious re her using covid as an excuse. Can’t even say I think he’s wrong tbh. 

Better day with son, got out for a big walk with just him and dog. Had a word with him about the anger too but tbh I’ve probably ruined future Christmases can’t do right and all that. Told him Santa doesn’t bring all the gifts, just one or two small things as he has a lot of children to go to and as son already knows parents don’t have an endless amount of money. Probably shouldn’t have - I did it because I can’t deal with the pressure next year tbh. I told him his school costs a lot of money so we can perhaps not always get him as many gifts as he’d like and perhaps some of the other parents are more wealthy and some maybe less so, so children may have different amounts of gifts at Christmas - shouldn’t compare and should be thankful for the gifts he does get. The whole being a ‘big boy’ thing is motivating to him ha so I told him I was trusting him with some information as now he’s 7 and mummy just wanted Christmas to be extra magical and had told him all presents are from Santa etc so he’s not upset with her. Really !!!!!! conflicted with myself tbh but I’ve seen a side to him that I know I have too and really don’t want him to carry on down that road. I know how bad the regrets are that come after the anger has gone, also said something that’s probably a bit old fashioned regarding the hitting out but if it nips it in the bud I’m ok with being seen as a bit old fashioned re women when he’s a bit older. 

Maybe I shouldn’t be struggling with my wife buying stuff because it’s my problem not hers. That’s why I’ve agreed to the £150/m for her to spend on the makeup or whatever she buys and sticks on IG. Personally I think it’s obscene too but it’s what she wants. For clarification re beauty / makeup / treatments; she does nails for a few girls. She has got rid of a couple for the new year so now seeing £175/m after expenses. This just about pays for her beauty treatments eyebrows etc. The makeup etc comes out of the variable spends. Yeah it’s gone from she’s going to have three months off to being £150/m but she’s agreed to no new clothes for her already (no new for me either, just buying for son when he needs them) and she felt it was very unfair to cut her spends further when I’ve got my RR. 100 she doesn’t need to keep buying this stuff probably enough to last a couple of years as pretty sure it has some kind of sell by date if not probably enough to see her out so yeah it annoys me. She doesn’t have any massive social media following - her account is set to private as she doesn’t want the nutters/ negative comments being public on IG attracts. Gets too upsetting for her as she does take anything negative very personally- we’ve been there before. She basically does IG for about 600 people she knows / has known at some point in her life. 100 she does not see it as a business.

I know why I’ve had big problems with spending if I’m completely honest exactly the same reasons I have a substance abuse problem. Anyone who’s tried it will probably know what I’m talking about when I say it makes me feel like the big shot I’ve always wanted to be in my head - I get something similar from the spending when it’s a large purchase and why I’m trying to avoid spending and everything else as much as possible right now. Also get it from business when things go well but that’s slightly different for me, it’s not quite the same kind of buzz and more satisfying for longer. No money is ever enough though - for a fleeting time I’ll feel like I’ve made it but it fades for me, I need the next hit. I know I earn well and actually feel grateful for that but the demons in my head are always asking why don’t I earn more. Why don’t I have more units, more of the market share in business, a house worth more and a brand new AM on the drive. When I was younger I was exactly the same but for years I was asking myself why don’t I live in the house next door lol laugh at that now and why am I not good enough to afford the FFRR etc all the stuff I have now and think isn’t good enough. It never ends for me it’s torturous. 

The spending got to the point of serious addiction no doubt at all, I have to stop myself every single day but the idea of using substances to the point of serious addiction terrifies me. Being totally honest my rock bottom had nothing to do with spending but knew if I didn’t truly address what has been going on in my head for many years sniffing powder at 10am in my home office wouldn’t be a one off. After I did that I’ve never felt so low in my life it’s like I’m only just the other side of the comedown now ha, did make me take the counselling and the debt issues a lot more seriously though. My wife hates drugs always has but no problem with the spending, when she’s on IG showing off the stuff she’s bought then showing me stuff on there all the hallmarks of ‘success’ I fear I’m going to relapse back into the same patterns. She keeps showing me the well into 7 figure places, the supercars, £18k bags, £40k watches etc etc telling me if I earned more maybe we’d have those things too. I did it to myself all the time thinking if I had that next thing maybe I’d feel successful in business and in myself just doesn’t stop though. Recently been reading accounts of people who have had similar issues nothing enough etc only solution seems to be to challenge the mindset altogether think I’m doing that by getting serious about the payback, trying to appreciate what I have more and focusing on putting business first. Don’t even think wife realises what it does to me, I’ve explained it’s my problem with mindset and I think I need her to help me a bit, she does for a few days then tells me to stop being ridiculous and I need to have stuff to work towards or will never get anywhere and it’s not fair me putting her through this when she doesn’t have a problem. I get that and it’s something we need to balance alongside the payback. How I don’t know. Been staring at figures this morning trying to make things work to give her more of a lifestyle whilst paying back just can’t without it becoming a very long road, numerous refinancing of current debt etc.

Sun_Addict

Next time your wife says she could bag herself a premiership football player you should respond by saying as most of them are a good 10 years younger than her they wouldn’t be interested. She might be attractive enough to initially pull them but as soon as they found out her age that would be it. Sounds harsh but it’s totally out of order taunt you with that remark. She obviously feels insecure to spend so much on beauty treatments/products and needs to realise you can still look good without spending a fortune. She needs to find some friends who like her for herself not an image she portrays on IG. 

Willowtree222

At least her parents now see her for more of who she is. I am glad for you that they have as maybe they lay for a little bit. 
My daughter knows that I buy most of her gifts and Santa gets her a few bits. She also knows (from my work) just how little some people get. Trying to get the balance is hard. So many of my students think benefits is a legitimate career and then the opposite end who are living off their parents. You made a choice with your son and it doesn't matter what others think, you think it is the right thing to do and say to him. 
It's not easy to change the habits of a lifetime. Her showing you what you could have if you had more. Then what? The next thing, and the next till you die from trying to get somewhere to make yourself happy. Embrace what you have now. You seem to already be changing this already. 
If she doesn't wear the Cartier I would sell those two. That's another huge part of your debt that could be gone. You can always replace it when you are debt free and get her something she wants when you have saved for it. 
You'll figure it out, it just takes time and the willingness to want to change. You have the willingness, now comes the patience of time. 

enthusiasticsaver

Why is it your responsibility to provide a lifestyle for your wife? That is an incredibly old fashioned view even for me and I am 60. My husband and I are a team and we work or worked towards our lifestyle together. Both of us earned the money though whereas I am not sure what your wife gives you apart from feelings of insecurity and a financial burden. It is unacceptable to pile all this pressure on you to earn more to provide hugely expensive bags, watches etc.

 Looking after the house and your son obviously takes up some time but most of us manage to do that and do paid work.  You are right if you want to carry on moving towards a bigger and more expensive house and higher income then focusing on your business is the priority. That means investing in it though which means less coming out for "lifestyle". If she earned a salary it would help even if not a lot to start with. Not wanting to work is not a good enough reason in my book for her to abdicate all responsibility for earning to you. 

I am glad that your PIL have seen the true side of your wife and that you have had words with your son or he will end up as entitled as your wife. You are doing well with the payback and focusing on work and working on the negative aspects like the spending addiction and substance abuse etc. £150 a month is too much for makeup when she already has loads.