First Steps to Solvency

alt80

Every cloud ... wife just told me she's sold her god awful shiny red Moncler jacket on depop. £600 to us and I never have to see her in that horrible coat again lol win win.

lostmyusername

Alt, I own a 1 bedroom flat in London (well, it’s mortgaged to the hilt - 80% mortgage) which cost £350k. Let me tell you, when I see someone’s lovely big house outside of the south east, my first thought isn’t how much it cost, it’s how lovely the house is, how much space, how it must be nice to have a garden, where I’d put my stuff if I had the house.

 If I find out how much it cost, my first thought isn’t “how pathetic, it didn’t cost more than 1mil”, it’s “omg I’m so impressed that they got such a wonderful home for such better value than I could get in London”. It makes me think that you’re business savvy and good with money, nothing else. 

Sarahwithlove

alt80 said:

Thanks. Lots for me to think about. I listened to the podcast @enthusiasticsaver yes definitely relates to me thanks. I feel I know what I need to do just can't face it a lot of the time. Sound like a time waster who doesn't want to turn my life around I know but suppose I'm afraid I'm going to start failing in business if I embrace a life not solely focused around buying stuff - always helped drive me forward in the past. 

Generally a better day today. Managed to get out with wife/ son/ dog for half decent walk. Got about half way but we took the car so I didn't have to walk home with my ankle - it's getting there slowly but really frustrating. Went back to the car and fell to sleep haha. Spent £15 on Christmas Starbucks freezing cold so we sat in the back of the car watching a film ha highlight of the weekend. Son loved it. Childish part of wife and I did too rest of carpark probably thought we were bonkers.

Made a bit more progress on the Xmas decs front, wife and I did another string of lights. Son wanted to help neither of us thought that was a good idea lol (hanging lights from eaves 2 storeys high) so did a bit inside he could help with too. Victorians would have had him do the lot.

@katsu not going into FILs letter for obvious reasons but yes it was supportive and I've spoken to my in-laws since. I'm sure they only want me to turn it around for their daughter's sake not mine but hoping it will make family occasions a bit easier and quite grateful for it tbh.

@ryanm8655 It's !!!!!! awful mate seeing the debt for what it is. The thing that really gets me is the position I put the portfolio in. Really disappointed in myself always thought whilst the personal was a mess I didn't cross business with personal - well I have and had to face up to it. Hate myself for it and no quick fix out of it. Wife has right attitude about it - like most on here what's done is done, work on getting out the mess, learn from it and don't do it again.

Nothing feels positive right now and then have a load of guilt because I know I've got it better than a lot. Many can't have kids and want them, less income especially round here etc etc All I see with the house right now is a massive embarrassment it's £625k max. Buys a lot in these parts tbf but everyone on here in South East no doubt with 7 fig places probably thinking that's the price of a 1 bed flat or somewhere bigger in a sh*thole, what a loser. So makes me think 'you live in a cheap house mate' which just turns into ‘failure’ and gets my anger going. Wife thinks I'm mad - average house price round here £225k. 

Not gonna lie, I sit and wish I'd tried to get into banking or something rather than just sticking with property. Some of those guys in London earning 7 figures a year but that's nothing but a pipe dream to me.

@Retireinten absolutely no doubt in my mind that's exactly where I'd be - nothing enough. Don't actually like I can never be satisfied have practically no self worth.

@enthusiasticsaver honestly think that's winning tbf being able to play long game not care about income/ property value etc. It’s the only thing I measure my worth by and I'm not happy, know that much. Acknowledging I was spending more than earning has 100 led me to feel bad about myself and know I’m a failure. 

Leverage been my only way to level up in the property world - I want as many units as I can get my hands on. Stupid as I know less units is not necessarily worse but the more units = makes me feel better. Not to say I buy crap investments. I assess my position with them regularly (actually talk it through with trusted member of staff as aware of my own bias) sell if it’s the right time and sold plenty over the years. 

Don’t feel I’ve time to slow down or no chance of keep chasing the levels - I’ll possibly get to next one but not the one after and one after if I slow down. Wife doesn’t get it because she’s not driven in the same way. Tbf you and others have said she has her own drivers - agree with that she does but not about the dream of 8 figure lifestyle for her.

@woahsoah / @warby68 She’s not the only one who has a line re substances - it’s 100 something I need to not be doing again in the context I was - it wasn’t about having a good time at all and 100 know that’s a road I don’t want to travel down.  

Need to go cold turkey with the spending or progress going to be even slower, will just have to take the mental health hit.

@TheAble Selling 1 wouldn’t really take much pressure off and nothing right now I’d like to sell (have properly considered). Though I deserve to feel under pressure with what I’ve done tbf. 

@getmore4less 100 true re no thought to outside work. In the background I’ve costed RR (think I put that up tbf), BMW, a couple of stupidly expensive holidays I have some big regrets over those said before I don’t mind spending less on this seeing a bit more culture rather than hiring a Maser. Also costed a few JL/ other spending binges. 100 disappointed in myself. Actually not too much over RR which I know a lot on here think is disgusting.

Ha yeah probably right about wife and house, it's not made it for me but should park it for now agreed.

100 agree re not fixing what I don’t know. Honestly if this was someone in business and hadn’t got a clue what was going on with the money side I’d tell them they probably ought not be in business. Can opt out of life but don’t really see that as a solution for me right now.

I needed to get a grip over budget pdq mate when I saw it on paper I was absolutely disgusted with myself. Not really a win just something I shouldn’t have let get so out of control in the first place.

Think you’re probably right about in my head somewhere thinking there’s a quick fix / borrow my way out of it. Re PG my solicitor explained it as ‘my share’ of equity - wife has no involvement in portfolio so if it all went bad I’d be the only one declared insolvent and equity of res home would be deemed 50/50 between wife and I so far as I'm aware. Not that it’d make much difference. If it went wrong - it’d go wrong big time, I know that. For me bankruptcy = big potential of losing businesses, definitely lose res home, a chance of losing my professional membership. Life would 100 not be worth living. Might seem like I’m totally reckless but I choose what I buy very carefully re property. Not to say things always go to plan though realised partnering up would be better for me on (what I see as) massive construction projects from the block.

Thanks mate. See no good stuff going on but I am so used to the instant gratification you’re definitely right about that so who knows.

@Sarahwithlove ISWYM but tbf I came into the relationship with a business / house etc. Know in the event of divorce a court wouldn’t care. Wife has nothing to lose ultimately if that makes sense. Not to say I don’t care about her because I do. 

Fixed rate ends January - choice of 2yr or 5yr fix at 1.4% so payment going down. You’ve reminded me I need to sort it now though. 

@annabanana82 / 7 figure house - Nice idea re self build but not for me I prefer old houses. Sister actually lives in a self build (every Architect's dream haha) which she loves so I do get it but wouldn’t get me the features I like. Happy to develop to flip if right projects come up though. 

I know basing on MV is just asking for wanting more but I’m obsessed with the idea of getting there to my detriment in fairness.

Day-to-day running: the places I’m looking at not too much more than my res home tbh. Basically a similar size house in the one part of the city which is better than where I live. Did make me laugh re council tax - I hate that bill haha. Current house is band f so not a massive difference but absolute rip off bill and another example of government penalising anyone they think is doing ok in life. 

She does have something to lose, her home. The one thing in life we all need is a home and you've put hers at risk with your debt. So as much as you may say I go to work, earn the money, the business is mine. It doesn't work that way and you viewing everything as still being yours shows that you're still thinking selfishly. You think it's mine, I paid for it, I can risk it, but it's not just your lifestyle you are putting at risk but your families. When you got married whether you like it or not you became a partnership. And yes she may not work a paid job but she keeps your house, washes your car, cooks your meals and raised your son. Yes she could go get a part time job and work but would you still expect her to do all those things or would you be willing to take some of that responsibility on? Answer is probably not from what you've said on here. You view your wife's lack of ambition as a bad thing but she's not the one wanting things she can't have and willing to put everything at risk to achieve it. Maybe she could do with a bit more ambition, but you could do with a lot less. 

mamamu

Alt80 I know you Find it difficult to understand how people live bellow they means and feel content and happy.

I live in 350k house it is comfortable, warm, not too big 3bed semi. You probably would think it is embarrassment and would be ashamed to live in it. But it so convenient and location is perfect - it is 6min walk to my sons school, 12min drive to my work, I have very stressful job so do not want to add stress of commuting and it is handy if I need to go back to work at night or over the weekend. 

I save time by living close to school and work. I also earn less than potential as I value time over the money. Time is worth more than money to me. 

You can buy everything bar time and health. I always say that I do not need stuff and hate shopping and only buy what I need, but I would buy more time in a day if I could. 

You are doing great, you will get there - hopefully not to your 7 figure house, but to happy yourself and be able enjoy life and appreciate what you got. 

Sarahwithlove

lostmyusername said:

Alt, I own a 1 bedroom flat in London (well, it’s mortgaged to the hilt - 80% mortgage) which cost £350k. Let me tell you, when I see someone’s lovely big house outside of the south east, my first thought isn’t how much it cost, it’s how lovely the house is, how much space, how it must be nice to have a garden, where I’d put my stuff if I had the house.

 If I find out how much it cost, my first thought isn’t “how pathetic, it didn’t cost more than 1mil”, it’s “omg I’m so impressed that they got such a wonderful home for such better value than I could get in London”. It makes me think that you’re business savvy and good with money, nothing else. 

Have to agree with this. I also look at these big homes and think about how much must cost to run and how I would get lost in such a place. I'd rather my home be mine, to fit my needs and wants without thinking about price tag. What good is a 7 figure home if it costs a bomb to run and you have no money left over for anything else. So many times in my line of work I come across people who are asset rich and when they need money quickly it doesn't help them at all. 
Could you commit to 5 years on your mortgage and know that this is where you will be for that time. It will give you a chance to get your business back in shape, get rid of the PG hopefully which would reassure your wife. Because if anything happened business and you're share was needed from property you would have to sell it and that's her biggest worry. Then in 4 years time you would hooefully be in a better position financially and emotionally and if you still want the 7 figure house (my hope is during this time you learn to be content with what you have) then you can go to your wife with your finances in order and she may be more willing to discuss it. Saying you want it now whilst you're in debt says to her that nothing has changed and that as soon as you get your debt paid off you're just gonna take on some more and be back to square one again. 

enthusiasticsaver

It is quite irrelevant how much your house is worth as the average house prices are totally different depending on what part of the country you live in. Also, it is net worth you should be interested in. You could have a £1m house but a mortgage of around £800k. Ours is £350k approx, 4 bed detached in South West but would be worth three times as much in London. No mortgage now though and for only two of us there would be no point in a bigger house and after living in ours for over 30 years it is now perfect for us. There are only three of you so I can't see the point of you needing more space and honestly most normal people (not property guys like you mix with) couldn't care less how much your house is worth. Your choice though if that is your eventual goal and the finances stack up. Doesn't sound like your wife will be on board with it. 

I wish you could let go of the shame and guilt and move on from this as it is not helpful unless it stops you ever getting in this position again. 

Glad you had had a nice day and the ankle is improving. 

mothsinmywallet_2

@alt80 - I just googled that moncler jacket. It looks like old fashioned hot water tank lagging 🤣  

alt80

@Sarahwithlove was hoping to go with 2yr to remo and realise money for further property at the 2 year mark, debt paid or nearly so should be able to realise the equity. Probably no surprise wife doesn't want that. I haven't really seen the houses as her's because I've bought them - yeah I know she has joint ownership but always seen it as she came in with nothing so nothing to lose. Sat here typing that quite ashamed we've made a life together been 12 years now. Practically all her adulthood and most of mine.

@lostmyusername / @mamamu I'm not judging others - if you're happy with your home I know that's what winning really is. Mentioned on here a while back I took a tenant out for lunch when we could lol. They'd just bought a similar house to what they were renting, both low paid jobs and had saved really hard. Perfect tenants too. I was and am so pleased for them. They were the kind of people that accept where they are and are happy in life if they can have a small house, a car, family holiday and activities for the kids. Don't need stuff, probably don't hate themselves or know the only good thing about them is earning well. Would rather my son grow up to be like that rather than never enough mentality.

@enthusiasticsaver tbh I thought you've probably been talking from a position of massive privilege, I had my bets on you typing whilst you overlooked Rock beach in a 7 figure house.

I can see it would be nice to have no res mortgage in a lot of ways must be nice not to have the payment going out and know for certain no matter what you can't go back from where you are iyswim. When I moved here I thought I'd never want anything else res home wise. Still get a bit of a buzz knowing its mine on the days I haven't been somewhere better, looking on RM etc. Actually had a week of massive panic attacks after we got the keys, had put myself under so much pressure to buy a house like mine the relief/ elation !!!!!! with my head. Wife took me to A&E once that week, ecg, bloods, chest X-rays, the lot. I was completely out of it, 100% sober too remember the consultant telling wife I need to learn to chill out. She worries I'll give myself a heart attack told her it doesn't work like that but she's all like 'not going through that again for another of your dream houses' lol.

@mothsinmywallet_2 Lol agreed I !!!!!! hate that jacket. Almost worth getting into the debt to know she's not going to wear it again haha. She bought it a couple of years ago was obsessed, had to go to London to get it - it's massive too and she is tiny. Looks like Michelin man.

I bought her a really nice black Moncler smaller fit, not full Michelin man style she admitted it looks better and wears it all the time can get somethings right. 

lostmyusername

No, not saying you’re judging. Just trying to highlight that if you think less of yourself because of the monetary value of your house, you shouldn’t, because nobody is judging you for having a house that’s not hit 1m in value. Tbh your home sounds absolutely wonderful. 

Like I mention before, I know the feeling of always wanting more. Bought this 1 bed a few months ago and I’m already eyeing up a 3/4 bed detached in a different part of the country. Funnily enough it only costs about £50k more than the price of my flat to get a 4 bed detached elsewhere. 

But if your sole reason for wanting a bigger house is so that you can tell people your house is worth 1m, I just wanted to say that the value of your house is not the first thing that comes to mind for most people.  

enthusiasticsaver

alt80 said:

@Sarahwithlove was hoping to go with 2yr to remo and realise money for further property at the 2 year mark, debt paid or nearly so should be able to realise the equity. Probably no surprise wife doesn't want that. I haven't really seen the houses as her's because I've bought them - yeah I know she has joint ownership but always seen it as she came in with nothing so nothing to lose. Sat here typing that quite ashamed we've made a life together been 12 years now. Practically all her adulthood and most of mine.

@lostmyusername / @mamamu I'm not judging others - if you're happy with your home I know that's what winning really is. Mentioned on here a while back I took a tenant out for lunch when we could lol. They'd just bought a similar house to what they were renting, both low paid jobs and had saved really hard. Perfect tenants too. I was and am so pleased for them. They were the kind of people that accept where they are and are happy in life if they can have a small house, a car, family holiday and activities for the kids. Don't need stuff, probably don't hate themselves or know the only good thing about them is earning well. Would rather my son grow up to be like that rather than never enough mentality.

@enthusiasticsaver tbh I thought you've probably been talking from a position of massive privilege, I had my bets on you typing whilst you overlooked Rock beach in a 7 figure house.

I can see it would be nice to have no res mortgage in a lot of ways must be nice not to have the payment going out and know for certain no matter what you can't go back from where you are iyswim. When I moved here I thought I'd never want anything else res home wise. Still get a bit of a buzz knowing its mine on the days I haven't been somewhere better, looking on RM etc. Actually had a week of massive panic attacks after we got the keys, had put myself under so much pressure to buy a house like mine the relief/ elation !!!!!! with my head. Wife took me to A&E once that week, ecg, bloods, chest X-rays, the lot. I was completely out of it, 100% sober too remember the consultant telling wife I need to learn to chill out. She worries I'll give myself a heart attack told her it doesn't work like that but she's all like 'not going through that again for another of your dream houses' lol.

@mothsinmywallet_2 Lol agreed I !!!!!! hate that jacket. Almost worth getting into the debt to know she's not going to wear it again haha. She bought it a couple of years ago was obsessed, had to go to London to get it - it's massive too and she is tiny. Looks like Michelin man.

I bought her a really nice black Moncler smaller fit, not full Michelin man style she admitted it looks better and wears it all the time can get somethings right. 

Just googled Moncler Jacket and yes on someone tiny I imagine some of those padded jackets would make them look like Michelin man particularly the red one 

In 2 years at £1000 month credit card repayments you may almost have cleared the debts but you will still have those massive PCP contracts so cannot see how you will be in a position to increase your mortgage but it does not sound like your wife is keen on that idea. Ideally you need to get back to the point of not needing the BTL income to live off. Then you can invest in the business. 

If you had panic attacks when buying this current house I cannot imagine why you would want to put yourself through that again. No wonder your wife wants you to slow down. Do you not care about your health? My Dad died of a heart attack and he had a stressful high powered job so I know the toll stress can take on you. Please learn to relax and not care what others think of you. 

Laughing at you thinking I am sat with all the townies (often with RR) as we call them in Cornwall sat in 7 figure houses (a lot of them  second homes) overlooking Rock beach. That is not the real Cornwall. Most of the people living in those are from London and the Home Counties and most Cornish people hate them for what they do to our lovely county ramping up house prices in a fairly low wage economy so our kids can't buy places. My elder daughter lives in Bristol which is about 100 miles away from us to get a decent wage as more job opportunities but my youngest daughter and son in law have good graduate level jobs in the same town as us but we helped both our daughters with deposits. We have lived in Cornwall and in this house for more than 30 years and it is a nice but ordinary executive 4 bed detached house in a medium sized town in S Cornwall. We chose to focus on getting mortgage free and build up our pensions and investments and help our children on to the housing ladder as house prices are above average here. We are comfortable with about half your gross  income each month in defined benefit pensions but three times your disposable income after debt repayments and school fees as we have no debts. Our bills come to less than £500 a month so approx £3k spare to either spend, save or give away. A lot of it goes on travel (not at the moment though) and some being saved to replace our cars in a few years time. Those are our choices but you could have choices like that if you chose to live life without the noose of debt around your neck. No problem with JL spends or even to save for an AM in cash. Why give yourself the grief of a massive mortgage? 

If you live in a £600k house up North I assumed you must live in a fairly nice detached home with a decent garden which must be lovely. A decent LTV so after the credit cards and cars sorted you could easily get mortgage free. Why  would you want to saddle yourself with more debt to move up a level when you admit you love the house? Don't say the auto reply (you want to feel like you have made it and show everybody what a success you are). That quite honestly is a ridiculous reason to buy a house. Buy it for yourself not for others. You have to take your wife's views into account as you have been married 12 years. One of the things that podcast said to counter the dopaminergic urges which makes you constantly look to the future rather than here and now is to make someone else happy. Make your wife happy by learning to enjoy your home and Family and possessions you have now rather than chase yet more stuff which will put you more in debt and give you a heart attack.