First Steps to Solvency

katsu

Hi @alt80. You aren't alone. We are here thinking of you. 

Your wifealt80 said:

Thanks all. Went to bed early with wife she’s fast asleep I’m wide awake again lol.

Not sure how acknowledging further debt is a good thing? - it’s torturing me further tbh. Did talk to wife about it and she just adds more - res home mortgage. She’s sat and worked out no cars, no cards, no res home mortgage and BTLs with no PGs working to the now budget for food/ fuel etc there’d be over £5k disposable every month. How much money I ‘waste’. She doesn’t want to move or leverage against the equity we have in res home. Hate her getting involved in my finances just as a way to shame me further and tell me I’m not good enough to get the home I want and want my family to be able to enjoy too. Always going to have the shame of not getting to the 7 figure level for res home if she wins. Now can’t sleep thinking about it. Catch 22 don’t want to upset her but don’t want to live in this level of house forever. Going around in circles I know.

Promised someone I know through business I’d help mentor his son who is a final year student and going to be coming into my industry next September. Forgot all about that until I got the email, now feel obliged. He’s a good lad been on a few placements in my business if he doesn’t choose to go for one of the big grad schemes I’d be happy to employ him so not that I don’t want to help I’m just not in the right mindset to do it. Said to the dad he should perhaps consider an industry where he will earn more. The dad just laughed and said I’m deluded if I think there’s many earning same as me round here. When I was 20/21 current income would have been beyond the dream - just found I can’t survive on this income and need more. Should be able to I know I earn well for where I live but absolutely tortures me I don’t see five figures after tax. Wife thinks it’s mental I can’t enjoy the lifestyle I have - lot worse off I know that.

My counsellor is not the problem - I’m the problem. I can’t find peace with the simple things, don’t understand being kind to yourself - don’t see anything to be kind about re me. @enthusiasticsaver thanks I did read the article will definitely listen to the podcast probably tomorrow but from what I read yes very much sounds like me. @maddiemay I’ll take a look tomorrow thanks.

You are doing really well. It is tough but you aren't alone. We are all here. 

I don't think your wife is trying to shame you at all, or say you that you aren't good enough. 

Discuss that with your Counsellor maybe as I really think that's likely to be a thought pattern about your self esteem. Not about her.  I think you even said the FIL letter was supportive not unsupportive unless I misunderstood? 

Your son loves you and you can grow and change and set an example to him about facing your problems.  

I'm with the Dad who laughed. You've done well and this mindset change and securing the future of your family  - unlike your dad did - are both great achievements. 

Don't write yourself off.  

ryanm8655

alt80 said:

Thanks all. Went to bed early with wife she’s fast asleep I’m wide awake again lol.

Not sure how acknowledging further debt is a good thing? - it’s torturing me further tbh. Did talk to wife about it and she just adds more - res home mortgage. She’s sat and worked out no cars, no cards, no res home mortgage and BTLs with no PGs working to the now budget for food/ fuel etc there’d be over £5k disposable every month. How much money I ‘waste’. She doesn’t want to move or leverage against the equity we have in res home. Hate her getting involved in my finances just as a way to shame me further and tell me I’m not good enough to get the home I want and want my family to be able to enjoy too. Always going to have the shame of not getting to the 7 figure level for res home if she wins. Now can’t sleep thinking about it. Catch 22 don’t want to upset her but don’t want to live in this level of house forever. Going around in circles I know.

Promised someone I know through business I’d help mentor his son who is a final year student and going to be coming into my industry next September. Forgot all about that until I got the email, now feel obliged. He’s a good lad been on a few placements in my business if he doesn’t choose to go for one of the big grad schemes I’d be happy to employ him so not that I don’t want to help I’m just not in the right mindset to do it. Said to the dad he should perhaps consider an industry where he will earn more. The dad just laughed and said I’m deluded if I think there’s many earning same as me round here. When I was 20/21 current income would have been beyond the dream - just found I can’t survive on this income and need more. Should be able to I know I earn well for where I live but absolutely tortures me I don’t see five figures after tax. Wife thinks it’s mental I can’t enjoy the lifestyle I have - lot worse off I know that.

My counsellor is not the problem - I’m the problem. I can’t find peace with the simple things, don’t understand being kind to yourself - don’t see anything to be kind about re me. @enthusiasticsaver thanks I did read the article will definitely listen to the podcast probably tomorrow but from what I read yes very much sounds like me. @maddiemay I’ll take a look tomorrow thanks.

It might not be good in terms of the numbers but until you acknowledge these things then progress is going to be hampered. That’s why it is such a positive change in mindset. I didn’t feel good when I sat down and acknowledged every penny of debt..in the short term it didn’t make me feel good but it was an initial step in me owning the problem, which was critical to solving it. When I went through every card my debt was actually not far off double what I thought, that didn’t make me feel good, let’s put it that way...

You need to stop putting yourself down. Why don’t you try taking a few positives from every day? I had a life changing event as a teenager. Honestly felt like I didn’t want to be alive anymore. In the end I decided I’d just focus on one positive thing everyday to get me out of the cycle of negative thoughts and that helped get me through.

It’s good to look back sometimes and realise how far you’ve come.

Again you’re blaming yourself when talking about your counsellor. If it’s not working for you then do try another. In my experience it’s important it’s someone that you trust and feel comfortable telling your darkest thoughts and secrets. It should be a place of zero judgement. It’s hard but it’s not about them telling you how to fix yourself or telling you what’s wrong. It’s your space to talk through your thoughts and feelings, with them guiding you through things and gaining an understanding about why you feel the way you do, why you act the way you do, what drives it? It’s not a magic cure, it is a lot of work and emotionally exhausting. I had bad counsellors and it wasn’t my fault they didn’t work for me...

I’d have a read of what @enthusiasticsaver has shared. Sounds really interesting and I wonder if it also applies to me. I was reading something today and there was someone who had been knighted previously and my thought was “I wonder if they get down about the fact they can’t get that high again, where do you go in life from there?” So I sort of chuckled to myself reading enthusiasticsaver’s post and wondered if I have an issue with my wiring too. I always need to have something to aim for but if it’s too far in the future then I just get down about the fact I’m not going to achieve it anytime soon, which is ironic because it just holds me back further. It’s one reason I hate my job so much. It’s also why I completely empathise with how you act and feel. Though at the moment I feel like your £7k a month would be a dream, I know once there I’d be wanting more. Your diary has helped me improve my mindset on that front a bit. Trying to look back at where I’ve come from some more, breaking the goals down into smaller chunks. I still have the voice in my head (even as I write this) beating myself up about not earning as much as some of my friends but I’m learning not to let it takeover. It’s not about holding back ambition and drive, I’m more driven than I’ve been in a longtime. It’s just not letting those thoughts and feelings overwhelm and suffocate you, it’s learning to manage them. They’ll always be there in some capacity but they’ll be less all consuming.

Speaking positively about your progress isn’t just blowing smoke you your !!!!!! to make you feel better either. It’s authentic. I remember your earlier posts before the diary and it’s a different person. You couldn’t even contemplate the cars as an issue. So it was a case of ok, how can I help this person to get over that initial hump and get them to a better place. I’d never have expected you to acknowledge the cars as an issue, even if it is just looking for another stick to beat yourself with. 

RelievedSheff

dawnybabes said:

There’s no shame in not having a 7 figure house. 

Absolutely.

Retireinten

The £1m+ house, the 5 figures after tax... what will happen if you achieve these things, Alt80?

Well, I'm going to tell you what I think will happen... I think you'd get a short term 'high' from the house purchase and you'd get a short term 'high' from hitting that £10k earnings goal and then...

It wouldn't be enough!

You'd feel exactly like you do now!

You'd need to level up again!

You're fixating on these things as if achieving them will fix everything and you will finally feel like you have made it!  But this feeling of not having enough will not end there, the rush will die down and then you will by eyeing that £2m+ house... 

You are in the grip of an addiction.  I know you're having counselling but the answer to a lot of this is wrapped up in finding the right treatment for you.  Otherwise you will be battling these feelings for life! 

enthusiasticsaver

I have just read your latest post and you and your wife are pulling in totally different directions but that is no bad thing as hopefully you will meet somewhere in the middle and you both compromise. Your wife is craving financial security like 99% of us. She wants no debt and quite rightly does not want to risk her home or go through all of this again. She is looking into the future and planning. You are doing the same but whereas you are wanting to "go big" and get the 7 figure house by leveraging the equity in your current home she is happy with what she has, you, your son and her home.  Even if you can make the figures stack up she is saying it is too risky for her and most of us would say the same. I quite honestly don't know how you get past this difference in objectives but I think you would be happier if you came round to her way of thinking. 

Can you not play the long game? Enjoy your business, your home, your wife, son and your cars and work on bringing the debt down to a sustainable level. Live in the here and now as the podcast I put up yesterday talks about. I have only listened to half but will listen to the rest in the next few days as I found it really interesting. The book he wrote The Molecule of More may be worth a read. Your brain is itching to get all this gone and you want on to the next thing which is clear the debt, sort the RR and then increase BTL to take your income up a notch. That is driving you forward but will also be your undoing if you take it to extremes and leveraging to the level you are talking about is dangerous. You also won't be happy when you get there because you will want a boat or a private jet or an AM.  Maybe re evaluate in 5 years before talking about bigger houses to your wife because she won't listen now. She is in the here and now and all she can see is that more than half of your income is going on debt repayments and she wants them gone too. All of them. 

You quite often say it is a "no brainer" when talking about borrowing to invest in property which suggests you don't see the risks and are only focused on rewards. Slowing down is again one of the suggestions Dr Zieberman makes and really thinking about things you are doing may help to rewire your neural pathways. 

woahsoah

I work in an industry where coke used to be fairly prevalent. It was never for me but 8 cups of coffee and coke can't be a good idea.

Alt80! Sort it out man. Unfortunately you've overspent and now have to reign it back for a few years. Keep it up!

RelievedSheff

Let's just say for arguments sake that you get this 7 figure house and more property.

What happens if your health declines and you can no longer work? 

enthusiasticsaver

ryanm8655 said:

alt80 said:

Thanks all. Went to bed early with wife she’s fast asleep I’m wide awake again lol.

Not sure how acknowledging further debt is a good thing? - it’s torturing me further tbh. Did talk to wife about it and she just adds more - res home mortgage. She’s sat and worked out no cars, no cards, no res home mortgage and BTLs with no PGs working to the now budget for food/ fuel etc there’d be over £5k disposable every month. How much money I ‘waste’. She doesn’t want to move or leverage against the equity we have in res home. Hate her getting involved in my finances just as a way to shame me further and tell me I’m not good enough to get the home I want and want my family to be able to enjoy too. Always going to have the shame of not getting to the 7 figure level for res home if she wins. Now can’t sleep thinking about it. Catch 22 don’t want to upset her but don’t want to live in this level of house forever. Going around in circles I know.

Promised someone I know through business I’d help mentor his son who is a final year student and going to be coming into my industry next September. Forgot all about that until I got the email, now feel obliged. He’s a good lad been on a few placements in my business if he doesn’t choose to go for one of the big grad schemes I’d be happy to employ him so not that I don’t want to help I’m just not in the right mindset to do it. Said to the dad he should perhaps consider an industry where he will earn more. The dad just laughed and said I’m deluded if I think there’s many earning same as me round here. When I was 20/21 current income would have been beyond the dream - just found I can’t survive on this income and need more. Should be able to I know I earn well for where I live but absolutely tortures me I don’t see five figures after tax. Wife thinks it’s mental I can’t enjoy the lifestyle I have - lot worse off I know that.

My counsellor is not the problem - I’m the problem. I can’t find peace with the simple things, don’t understand being kind to yourself - don’t see anything to be kind about re me. @enthusiasticsaver thanks I did read the article will definitely listen to the podcast probably tomorrow but from what I read yes very much sounds like me. @maddiemay I’ll take a look tomorrow thanks.

It might not be good in terms of the numbers but until you acknowledge these things then progress is going to be hampered. That’s why it is such a positive change in mindset. I didn’t feel good when I sat down and acknowledged every penny of debt..in the short term it didn’t make me feel good but it was an initial step in me owning the problem, which was critical to solving it. When I went through every card my debt was actually not far off double what I thought, that didn’t make me feel good, let’s put it that way...

Again you’re blaming yourself when talking about your counsellor. If it’s not working for you then do try another. In my experience it’s important it’s someone that you trust and feel comfortable telling your darkest thoughts and secrets. It should be a place of zero judgement. It’s hard but it’s not about them telling you how to fix yourself or telling you what’s wrong. It’s your space to talk through your thoughts and feelings, with them guiding you through things and gaining an understanding about why you feel the way you do, why you act the way you do, what drives it? It’s not a magic cure, it is a lot of work and emotionally exhausting. I had bad counsellors and it wasn’t my fault they didn’t work for me...

I’d have a read of what @enthusiasticsaver has shared. Sounds really interesting and I wonder if it also applies to me. I was reading something today and there was someone who had been knighted previously and my thought was “I wonder if they get down about the fact they can’t get that high again, where do you go in life from there?” So I sort of chuckled to myself reading enthusiasticsaver’s post and wondered if I have an issue with my wiring too. I always need to have something to aim for but if it’s too far in the future then I just get down about the fact I’m not going to achieve it anytime soon, which is ironic because it just holds me back further. It’s one reason I hate my job so much. It’s also why I completely empathise with how you act and feel. Though at the moment I feel like your £7k a month would be a dream, I know once there I’d be wanting more. Your diary has helped me improve my mindset on that front a bit. Trying to look back at where I’ve come from some more, breaking the goals down into smaller chunks. I still have the voice in my head (even as I write this) beating myself up about not earning as much as some of my friends but I’m learning not to let it takeover. It’s not about holding back ambition and drive, I’m more driven than I’ve been in a longtime. It’s just not letting those thoughts and feelings overwhelm and suffocate you, it’s learning to manage them. They’ll always be there in some capacity but they’ll be less all consuming.

Speaking positively about your progress isn’t just blowing smoke you your !!!!!! to make you feel better either. It’s authentic. I remember your earlier posts before the diary and it’s a different person. You couldn’t even contemplate the cars as an issue. So it was a case of ok, how can I help this person to get over that initial hump and get them to a better place. I’d never have expected you to acknowledge the cars as an issue, even if it is just looking for another stick to beat yourself with. 

I think that is a very useful post Ryan and when I first read @alt80 posts I thought of you as being someone who has drive and wants things sorted quickly so I have been so impressed you have stayed the course with your debt clearing and made extreme sacrifices to get where you want to be. I think for you though slowing down and not living the fast London scene for a year has helped you live in the here and now and you can enjoy the fruits of your labour without constantly seeking the next high. Somebody who apparently had a dopaminergic brain according to the podcast is Buzz Aldrin as when he was asked after he came back from the moon whether he enjoyed the experience and how he felt all he could think of was what could he do next and never even revelled at being on the moon" He battled all sorts of addictions afterwards apparently seeking a high bigger than a trip to the moon. Of course there isn't likely to be one so this craving for highs never stopped. 

warby68

Hope you managed some sleep
The problem right now is that what you are acknowledging intellectually is causing even more emotional strife. Its a raging battlefield for you. No wonder you can't sleep but do try and remember that middle of the night thoughts are never the best.
That post above acknowledging all of your debt is a landmark.
The message from your wife is 100% not about failure. 
It might be painful and it might feel slow, but its progress nonetheless.
I hope the day comes soon when you can allow yourself to see degrees of success (which is the truth) rather than degrees of failure (which isn't).
This will all take time but obviously some stuff is urgent - your wife clearly has a line regarding substances ( I would too with a child) so that needs some priority.
Not sure if cold turkey is right for you spending wise as its one addiction that you can never avoid by not doing at all. Perhaps a small amount of personal spends needs to be built in. Your job is then to get satisfaction from a smaller scale of spending rather than going insane from none at all. Its how I've managed generally - small luxuries. Its more realistic for the long term too. Just a thought.
Take it easy - you've had a rough week.

TheAble

Why not sell one of your BTLs and de-leverage a bit? I think you ought to take some pressure off yourself.