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TSB launches new 'Spend and Save' current account

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  • WillPS
    WillPS Posts: 5,171 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Newshound! Name Dropper
    edited 12 June 2021 at 2:32PM
    WillPS said:
    keiran said:
    I can't see in the terms that there's an option to downgrade to a spend and save from a send and save plus account, although 
    I do see that there's an option to close the account within 30 days.
    And even if the account is downgraded, is it certain that you'll be allowed another lot of £5 for six months?

    S+S + can be downgraded in same way as it gets upgraded, I would be suprised if another £5 x 6 can be gained having previously had 6 x £5 from S+S account
    Plus account has a monthly charge of £3 which dents the £5 cashback even though it’s unlimited duration.

    Six max £5 cashback per spend and save account. That’s it. No second time around.

    Open another or convert existing Classic plus if desperate for another string of six fivers.
    FYI - £5 'TSB Card Reward' paid on new* TSB Spend & Save account June 8th.

    *new as defined by TSB, in this case an account which was opened as Spend & Save in October, changed to Spend & Save Plus in April and changed once again to Spend & Save in May

    Being as terms and conditions of Plus account are : "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range"  more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S being defined by TSB as "new"
    Utter rubbish. The very first term of the Cashback Terms and Conditions states:
    You are eligible for cashback if you open a new Spend & Save account or Spend & Save Plus account. Opening a new account includes changing an existing TSB account, other than a Classic account, to a Spend & Save or Spend & Save Plus account.

    Arguably, the situation you've described is less covered as it uses the word 'Convert' rather than the word 'Change' - who knows whether or not cashback would actually apply in that case.

    Once again, I challenge you - how is changing a TSB Classic Plus account to a TSB Spend & Save account any more eligible for 6 £5 cashback payments than changing a TSB Spend & Save Plus account to a TSB Spend & Save account, by the terms of the offer?

    TSB's system is correctly enforcing the terms and conditions of the offer.
  • bristolleedsfan
    bristolleedsfan Posts: 12,648 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 12 June 2021 at 3:26PM
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    keiran said:
    I can't see in the terms that there's an option to downgrade to a spend and save from a send and save plus account, although 
    I do see that there's an option to close the account within 30 days.
    And even if the account is downgraded, is it certain that you'll be allowed another lot of £5 for six months?

    S+S + can be downgraded in same way as it gets upgraded, I would be suprised if another £5 x 6 can be gained having previously had 6 x £5 from S+S account
    Plus account has a monthly charge of £3 which dents the £5 cashback even though it’s unlimited duration.

    Six max £5 cashback per spend and save account. That’s it. No second time around.

    Open another or convert existing Classic plus if desperate for another string of six fivers.
    FYI - £5 'TSB Card Reward' paid on new* TSB Spend & Save account June 8th.

    *new as defined by TSB, in this case an account which was opened as Spend & Save in October, changed to Spend & Save Plus in April and changed once again to Spend & Save in May

    Being as terms and conditions of Plus account are : "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range"  more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S being defined by TSB as "new"
    Arguably, the situation you've described is less covered as it uses the word 'Convert' rather than the word 'Change' - who knows whether or not cashback would actually apply in that case.

    Convert/Change means apparent same thing  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/convert

  • WillPS
    WillPS Posts: 5,171 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Newshound! Name Dropper
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    keiran said:
    I can't see in the terms that there's an option to downgrade to a spend and save from a send and save plus account, although 
    I do see that there's an option to close the account within 30 days.
    And even if the account is downgraded, is it certain that you'll be allowed another lot of £5 for six months?

    S+S + can be downgraded in same way as it gets upgraded, I would be suprised if another £5 x 6 can be gained having previously had 6 x £5 from S+S account
    Plus account has a monthly charge of £3 which dents the £5 cashback even though it’s unlimited duration.

    Six max £5 cashback per spend and save account. That’s it. No second time around.

    Open another or convert existing Classic plus if desperate for another string of six fivers.
    FYI - £5 'TSB Card Reward' paid on new* TSB Spend & Save account June 8th.

    *new as defined by TSB, in this case an account which was opened as Spend & Save in October, changed to Spend & Save Plus in April and changed once again to Spend & Save in May

    Being as terms and conditions of Plus account are : "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range"  more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S being defined by TSB as "new"
    Arguably, the situation you've described is less covered as it uses the word 'Convert' rather than the word 'Change' - who knows whether or not cashback would actually apply in that case.

    Convert/Change means apparent same thing  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/convert

    So you concede that you were wrong about the other stuff then?
  • Congratulations WillPS. May I ask if you kept the same debit card throughout?
  • bristolleedsfan
    bristolleedsfan Posts: 12,648 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 12 June 2021 at 7:41PM
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    keiran said:
    I can't see in the terms that there's an option to downgrade to a spend and save from a send and save plus account, although 
    I do see that there's an option to close the account within 30 days.
    And even if the account is downgraded, is it certain that you'll be allowed another lot of £5 for six months?

    S+S + can be downgraded in same way as it gets upgraded, I would be suprised if another £5 x 6 can be gained having previously had 6 x £5 from S+S account
    Plus account has a monthly charge of £3 which dents the £5 cashback even though it’s unlimited duration.

    Six max £5 cashback per spend and save account. That’s it. No second time around.

    Open another or convert existing Classic plus if desperate for another string of six fivers.
    FYI - £5 'TSB Card Reward' paid on new* TSB Spend & Save account June 8th.

    *new as defined by TSB, in this case an account which was opened as Spend & Save in October, changed to Spend & Save Plus in April and changed once again to Spend & Save in May

    Being as terms and conditions of Plus account are : "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range"  more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S being defined by TSB as "new"
    Arguably, the situation you've described is less covered as it uses the word 'Convert' rather than the word 'Change' - who knows whether or not cashback would actually apply in that case.

    Convert/Change means apparent same thing  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/convert

    So you concede that you were wrong about the other stuff then?
    You believe this is the case  "TSB's system is correctly enforcing the terms and conditions of the offer"
    I believe this is the case  "more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S having already received maximum £5 x 6 per account permitted by S+S T+C being defined by TSB as "new"
    Only fact we know for certain is that everybody can believe what they want to believe

    Maybe ( maybe not) you are correct that TSB intention was £5 x 6 months S+S maximum per account with no apparent stated limit to number of S+S accounts that can be opened,that TSB subsequently launched a S+S Plus account  "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range" which offered £5 per month less a £3 monthly fee = £2 profit for same number of debit card transactions until such time as TSB might decide to terminate the incentive,that TSB intended to waste money issuing a new debit card when customer upgraded to Plus and intended to waste more money issuing another new debit card when the customer month later downgraded back to S+S so that the customer(s) due to TSB intention that customer(s) would then be able to gain another £5 x 6 months without paying a fee on apparent unlimited number of S+S accounts


  • WillPS
    WillPS Posts: 5,171 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Newshound! Name Dropper
    Congratulations WillPS. May I ask if you kept the same debit card throughout?
    No, annoyingly you get sent a new (dark blue) card when you change to Plus and another new (light blue) card when you change from Plus to the normal Spend & Save. The old debit card continues to work for a shortwhile but not indefinitely.
  • WillPS
    WillPS Posts: 5,171 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Newshound! Name Dropper
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    keiran said:
    I can't see in the terms that there's an option to downgrade to a spend and save from a send and save plus account, although 
    I do see that there's an option to close the account within 30 days.
    And even if the account is downgraded, is it certain that you'll be allowed another lot of £5 for six months?

    S+S + can be downgraded in same way as it gets upgraded, I would be suprised if another £5 x 6 can be gained having previously had 6 x £5 from S+S account
    Plus account has a monthly charge of £3 which dents the £5 cashback even though it’s unlimited duration.

    Six max £5 cashback per spend and save account. That’s it. No second time around.

    Open another or convert existing Classic plus if desperate for another string of six fivers.
    FYI - £5 'TSB Card Reward' paid on new* TSB Spend & Save account June 8th.

    *new as defined by TSB, in this case an account which was opened as Spend & Save in October, changed to Spend & Save Plus in April and changed once again to Spend & Save in May

    Being as terms and conditions of Plus account are : "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range"  more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S being defined by TSB as "new"
    Arguably, the situation you've described is less covered as it uses the word 'Convert' rather than the word 'Change' - who knows whether or not cashback would actually apply in that case.

    Convert/Change means apparent same thing  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/convert

    So you concede that you were wrong about the other stuff then?
    You believe this is the case  "TSB's system is correctly enforcing the terms and conditions of the offer"
    I believe this is the case  "more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S having already received maximum £5 x 6 per account permitted by S+S T+C being defined by TSB as "new"
    Only fact we know for certain is that everybody can believe what they want to believe

    Maybe ( maybe not) you are correct that TSB intention was £5 x 6 months S+S maximum per account with no apparent stated limit to number of S+S accounts that can be opened,that TSB subsequently launched a S+S Plus account  "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range" which offered £5 per month less a £3 monthly fee = £2 profit for same number of debit card transactions until such time as TSB might decide to terminate the incentive,that TSB intended to waste money issuing a new debit card when customer upgraded to Plus and intended to waste more money issuing another new debit card when the customer month later downgraded back to S+S so that the customer(s) due to TSB intention that customer(s) would then be able to gain another £5 x 6 months without paying a fee on apparent unlimited number of S+S accounts


    I'm not sure why you're bringing intention in to this. I very much doubt TSB would have intended for the offer to be used by people doing £1 daily Amazon top ups to (mostly) meet the criteria, nor putting 30 £1 NS&I transactions through. The fact is the terms of the offer do not forbid it.

    Straw man.
  • bristolleedsfan
    bristolleedsfan Posts: 12,648 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 12 June 2021 at 11:12PM
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    keiran said:
    I can't see in the terms that there's an option to downgrade to a spend and save from a send and save plus account, although 
    I do see that there's an option to close the account within 30 days.
    And even if the account is downgraded, is it certain that you'll be allowed another lot of £5 for six months?

    S+S + can be downgraded in same way as it gets upgraded, I would be suprised if another £5 x 6 can be gained having previously had 6 x £5 from S+S account
    Plus account has a monthly charge of £3 which dents the £5 cashback even though it’s unlimited duration.

    Six max £5 cashback per spend and save account. That’s it. No second time around.

    Open another or convert existing Classic plus if desperate for another string of six fivers.
    FYI - £5 'TSB Card Reward' paid on new* TSB Spend & Save account June 8th.

    *new as defined by TSB, in this case an account which was opened as Spend & Save in October, changed to Spend & Save Plus in April and changed once again to Spend & Save in May

    Being as terms and conditions of Plus account are : "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range"  more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S being defined by TSB as "new"
    Arguably, the situation you've described is less covered as it uses the word 'Convert' rather than the word 'Change' - who knows whether or not cashback would actually apply in that case.

    Convert/Change means apparent same thing  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/convert

    So you concede that you were wrong about the other stuff then?
    You believe this is the case  "TSB's system is correctly enforcing the terms and conditions of the offer"
    I believe this is the case  "more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S having already received maximum £5 x 6 per account permitted by S+S T+C being defined by TSB as "new"
    Only fact we know for certain is that everybody can believe what they want to believe

    Maybe ( maybe not) you are correct that TSB intention was £5 x 6 months S+S maximum per account with no apparent stated limit to number of S+S accounts that can be opened,that TSB subsequently launched a S+S Plus account  "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range" which offered £5 per month less a £3 monthly fee = £2 profit for same number of debit card transactions until such time as TSB might decide to terminate the incentive,that TSB intended to waste money issuing a new debit card when customer upgraded to Plus and intended to waste more money issuing another new debit card when the customer month later downgraded back to S+S so that the customer(s) due to TSB intention that customer(s) would then be able to gain another £5 x 6 months without paying a fee on apparent unlimited number of S+S accounts


    I'm not sure why you're bringing intention in to this. I very much doubt TSB would have intended for the offer to be used by people doing £1 daily Amazon top ups to (mostly) meet the criteria, nor putting 30 £1 NS&I transactions through. The fact is the terms of the offer do not forbid it.

    Straw man.
    TSB have done 30 debit card transactions for £5 monthly reward, maximum x 6 months previously so they would know what type of DC transactions such an incentive encourages, doubt if they are fussed how people transacted DC transactions being as TSB clearly intended to limit £5 monthly profit x number of accounts to maximum 6 months

  • WillPS
    WillPS Posts: 5,171 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Newshound! Name Dropper
    edited 12 June 2021 at 11:49PM
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    keiran said:
    I can't see in the terms that there's an option to downgrade to a spend and save from a send and save plus account, although 
    I do see that there's an option to close the account within 30 days.
    And even if the account is downgraded, is it certain that you'll be allowed another lot of £5 for six months?

    S+S + can be downgraded in same way as it gets upgraded, I would be suprised if another £5 x 6 can be gained having previously had 6 x £5 from S+S account
    Plus account has a monthly charge of £3 which dents the £5 cashback even though it’s unlimited duration.

    Six max £5 cashback per spend and save account. That’s it. No second time around.

    Open another or convert existing Classic plus if desperate for another string of six fivers.
    FYI - £5 'TSB Card Reward' paid on new* TSB Spend & Save account June 8th.

    *new as defined by TSB, in this case an account which was opened as Spend & Save in October, changed to Spend & Save Plus in April and changed once again to Spend & Save in May

    Being as terms and conditions of Plus account are : "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range"  more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S being defined by TSB as "new"
    Arguably, the situation you've described is less covered as it uses the word 'Convert' rather than the word 'Change' - who knows whether or not cashback would actually apply in that case.

    Convert/Change means apparent same thing  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/convert

    So you concede that you were wrong about the other stuff then?
    You believe this is the case  "TSB's system is correctly enforcing the terms and conditions of the offer"
    I believe this is the case  "more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S having already received maximum £5 x 6 per account permitted by S+S T+C being defined by TSB as "new"
    Only fact we know for certain is that everybody can believe what they want to believe

    Maybe ( maybe not) you are correct that TSB intention was £5 x 6 months S+S maximum per account with no apparent stated limit to number of S+S accounts that can be opened,that TSB subsequently launched a S+S Plus account  "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range" which offered £5 per month less a £3 monthly fee = £2 profit for same number of debit card transactions until such time as TSB might decide to terminate the incentive,that TSB intended to waste money issuing a new debit card when customer upgraded to Plus and intended to waste more money issuing another new debit card when the customer month later downgraded back to S+S so that the customer(s) due to TSB intention that customer(s) would then be able to gain another £5 x 6 months without paying a fee on apparent unlimited number of S+S accounts


    I'm not sure why you're bringing intention in to this. I very much doubt TSB would have intended for the offer to be used by people doing £1 daily Amazon top ups to (mostly) meet the criteria, nor putting 30 £1 NS&I transactions through. The fact is the terms of the offer do not forbid it.

    Straw man.
    TSB have done 30 debit card transactions for £5 monthly reward, maximum x 6 months previously so they would know what type of DC transactions such an incentive encourages, doubt if they are fussed how people transacted DC transactions being as TSB clearly intended to limit £5 monthly profit x number of accounts to maximum 6 months

    If that was the case, then why not just put £5 straight in to the account every month? Why make the consumer jump through hoops?

    I presume the intention of Term 2.1/2.2 is to encourage the customer to use it as their day to day debit card. The term doesn't forbid you from doing 30 £1 token transactions and nothing else though, and that's what matters when it comes to deciding whether or not cashback should be paid.

    (Conversely there is no allowance that somebody who uses it for every single transaction they make would get the cashback if they do less than 30 transactions; even though that is presumably exactly the behaviour TSB want to encourage.)

    In the same way, I presume the intention of Term 1.1 is to give existing customers on legacy account types an incentive to move over to the Spend & Save product. The term does not forbid you from moving from any account (other than Classic), and that's what matters when it comes to deciding whether or not cashback should be paid.

    Do you agree then that intention has nothing to do with whether Cashback should be paid or not?
  • bristolleedsfan
    bristolleedsfan Posts: 12,648 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 13 June 2021 at 10:11AM
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    WillPS said:
    keiran said:
    I can't see in the terms that there's an option to downgrade to a spend and save from a send and save plus account, although 
    I do see that there's an option to close the account within 30 days.
    And even if the account is downgraded, is it certain that you'll be allowed another lot of £5 for six months?

    S+S + can be downgraded in same way as it gets upgraded, I would be suprised if another £5 x 6 can be gained having previously had 6 x £5 from S+S account
    Plus account has a monthly charge of £3 which dents the £5 cashback even though it’s unlimited duration.

    Six max £5 cashback per spend and save account. That’s it. No second time around.

    Open another or convert existing Classic plus if desperate for another string of six fivers.
    FYI - £5 'TSB Card Reward' paid on new* TSB Spend & Save account June 8th.

    *new as defined by TSB, in this case an account which was opened as Spend & Save in October, changed to Spend & Save Plus in April and changed once again to Spend & Save in May

    Being as terms and conditions of Plus account are : "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range"  more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S being defined by TSB as "new"
    Arguably, the situation you've described is less covered as it uses the word 'Convert' rather than the word 'Change' - who knows whether or not cashback would actually apply in that case.

    Convert/Change means apparent same thing  https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/convert

    So you concede that you were wrong about the other stuff then?
    You believe this is the case  "TSB's system is correctly enforcing the terms and conditions of the offer"
    I believe this is the case  "more likely to be an unintended loophole than action of downgrading back to S+S having already received maximum £5 x 6 per account permitted by S+S T+C being defined by TSB as "new"
    Only fact we know for certain is that everybody can believe what they want to believe

    Maybe ( maybe not) you are correct that TSB intention was £5 x 6 months S+S maximum per account with no apparent stated limit to number of S+S accounts that can be opened,that TSB subsequently launched a S+S Plus account  "If you’ve more than one Spend & Save Plus account in your own name as an individual or more than one joint Spend & Save Plus account, we may convert your additional Spend & Save Plus account(s) into a Spend & Save account or another current account in our range" which offered £5 per month less a £3 monthly fee = £2 profit for same number of debit card transactions until such time as TSB might decide to terminate the incentive,that TSB intended to waste money issuing a new debit card when customer upgraded to Plus and intended to waste more money issuing another new debit card when the customer month later downgraded back to S+S so that the customer(s) due to TSB intention that customer(s) would then be able to gain another £5 x 6 months without paying a fee on apparent unlimited number of S+S accounts


    I'm not sure why you're bringing intention in to this. I very much doubt TSB would have intended for the offer to be used by people doing £1 daily Amazon top ups to (mostly) meet the criteria, nor putting 30 £1 NS&I transactions through. The fact is the terms of the offer do not forbid it.

    Straw man.
    TSB have done 30 debit card transactions for £5 monthly reward, maximum x 6 months previously so they would know what type of DC transactions such an incentive encourages, doubt if they are fussed how people transacted DC transactions being as TSB clearly intended to limit £5 monthly profit x number of accounts to maximum 6 months



    In the same way, I presume the intention of Term 1.1 is to give existing customers on legacy account types an incentive to move over to the Spend & Save product. The term does not forbid you from moving from any account (other than Classic), and that's what matters when it comes to deciding whether or not cashback should be paid.

    Do you agree then that intention has nothing to do with whether Cashback should be paid or not?
    Being as S+S Plus was not even a live account at the time S+S launched I fail to see connection between  S+S Plus and S+S T+C that you quote
    The most recent S+S account that I opened Debit card and PIN were issued, was able to change PIN, however card could not be used online or offline with PIN, was not possible to order replacement card,  I seemingly got around that by upgrading to S+S Plus and downgrading back to S+S, debit cards that could be used were issued on both occasions and I received £5 for 30 debit card transactions I certainly agree then that intention has nothing to do with whether Cashback might be paid or not

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