Bank account closed, nowhere to go.

Shakin_Steve

Dr_Crypto said:

Seems a bit harsh to say it is a business. I imagine lots of people occasionally sell things without running a business. For example if I sell some DVDs on EBay does this mean I am running a business? What about if a mate asks me to be a first aider at party and bungs me £100 for it? Am I running a first aid business? 

Best to ask HMRC.

NedS

Dr_Crypto said:

Seems a bit harsh to say it is a business. I imagine lots of people occasionally sell things without running a business. For example if I sell some DVDs on EBay does this mean I am running a business? What about if a mate asks me to be a first aider at party and bungs me £100 for it? Am I running a first aid business? 

This really isn't difficult and has already been answered more than once in this thread. If you are selling personal items that you own like DVDs on Ebay then that is not a business. If however, you buy DVDs with a view to resellling them for profit, then that is a business. If you turn up to an event and provide a service for a fee (first aid), then yes that is a business. HMRC require anyone making more that £1000 per year to register as a sole trader and to file self assessment tax returns for their business. If you only offer first aid at a couple event per year, earning less than £1000, then you still have a business (just not a very successful one) and are not required to register with HMRC nor file tax returns as all businesses are allowed a minimum £1000 expenses per year, regardless whether they have incurred them or not, so by definition your allowable expenses would be more than your business income and there would be no taxable income to declare.

Whether you consider that harsh or not is not really relevant - those are the rules as set out by HMRC which everyone must follow. The fact that some people choose to ignore them and that HMRC do not seem overly aggressive in enforcing them is irrelevant.

sheramber

born_again said:

sheramber said:

I am surprised  that a bank will  freeze all accounts  on the say so of a third party without any investigation.
That leaves the way for anybody with a grudge to make a false accusation with serious  consequences.
  

Do you honestly believe what you have posted?
It might surprise you, but a lot of work will have gone into the investigation and making the decision to close the account. The account holder will have been contacted and given their chance to defend themselves. Sounds like they shot themselves in the foot by saying that they had been selling puppies over the last couple of years.

As to banks not caring about a personal account being run as a business, xlnc99 is so wrong, but then again they do not work in banking so have little idea of what goes on.

What I said is based on the fact that the OP stated the bank had made no enquiries to the friend.
So , yes , I do believe  what I posted.  I would expect the bank to make enquiries rather than take the word of a  random third party.

TheStoozeFather

colsten said:

Definitely time to activate the ignore button.

But then where would you get such good good advice? 

born_again

xlnc99 said:

Also - i have not checked this recently but the last time i checked HSBC terms and conditions it was

'The product/service you have with use 'should' not be used for business purposes'

That is a not a definite answer in my eyes. It does not state that you 'cannnot' use it for business purposes. It is basically saying its recommended not to.

Given HSBC have business accounts, that they charge for. Do you not think that their business model is so wrong that they let business run prosomal accounts to avoid paying fee's.

No. Once they find out. They will give them the option to switch or close the account.

born_again

Dr_Crypto said:

Seems a bit harsh to say it is a business. I imagine lots of people occasionally sell things without running a business. For example if I sell some DVDs on EBay does this mean I am running a business? What about if a mate asks me to be a first aider at party and bungs me £100 for it? Am I running a first aid business? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news-14/hmrc-plans-tax-crackdown-on-money-made-online-10415482.html

It's all about how much you make.

Same with people that buy and sell cars from their homes. They get caught out as they think they are not running a business. Tax man thinks otherwise.

tehone

xlnc99 said:

P.S - I am most definitely not arrogant, maybe its my lack of ability to read.

I take it back - its just one of those threads with so much information floating around its hard to keep track!

John_

xlnc99 said:

sheramber said:

xlnc99 said:

 
Firstly the whole nonsense about 'being a business' etc is rubbish. Everyone buys and sells items at some point and a bank transfer is how most pay.  

Do they draw up a contract that they get the  buyer to sign when they sell their   goods?
So the framer who sells his animals   is not running a business?

Not sure i understand your post. However, as far as i understand the friends dogs had some puppies and like most people sold their pups. They used a bank account for the transaction. You do not need a business account for this, even if they do this every year. As i said, banks do not care about this sort of thing. Only if they use the account just for business and its full of high worth transactions constantly which are all to do with business - then its a problem.

Rubbish. She is choosing to breed dogs to sell, that is a business. How can you possibly claim otherwise.

They chose to try to cheat the system, they got caught, they are now dealing with the consequences.

Bloody-minded denials don’t change the facts here.

John_

Dr_Crypto said:

Seems a bit harsh to say it is a business. I imagine lots of people occasionally sell things without running a business. For example if I sell some DVDs on EBay does this mean I am running a business? What about if a mate asks me to be a first aider at party and bungs me £100 for it? Am I running a first aid business? 

I am not sure if replies like yours are disingenuous or just ignorant. Your examples have nothing to do with the situation here, where it’s clear that it’s a business.

xlnc99

John_ said:

xlnc99 said:

sheramber said:

xlnc99 said:

 
Firstly the whole nonsense about 'being a business' etc is rubbish. Everyone buys and sells items at some point and a bank transfer is how most pay.  

Do they draw up a contract that they get the  buyer to sign when they sell their   goods?
So the framer who sells his animals   is not running a business?

Not sure i understand your post. However, as far as i understand the friends dogs had some puppies and like most people sold their pups. They used a bank account for the transaction. You do not need a business account for this, even if they do this every year. As i said, banks do not care about this sort of thing. Only if they use the account just for business and its full of high worth transactions constantly which are all to do with business - then its a problem.

Rubbish. She is choosing to breed dogs to sell, that is a business. How can you possibly claim otherwise.

They chose to try to cheat the system, they got caught, they are now dealing with the consequences.

Bloody-minded denials don’t change the facts here.

I think you are confused. Firstly no-one got caught trying to cheat any system as you cant cheat a system that does not exist. ITs been established that is not not illegal to use a personal account for business. Google it for your own piece of mind. Its a grey area and most definatley frowned upon by banks as they want people to have business accounts for their own self interests and money making.  Secondly its not a business, breeding dogs twice in her liftime is hardly a business, She has some dogs and has decided to breed them once a year for the past two years - hardly call that a business!

Ive seen a car on autotrader going for cheap. I no a person interested in such a car and i see it as an opportunity to make some extra cash. I buy the car from autotrade and sell it to someone else to make a few quid. Do i now have a car business? Will the bank shut my account if i use my personal account for this transaction? Come on, lets back to reality here.  However, that is neither here or there because the issue here is the buyer has complained about fraud on the bank account as the seller did not return the money although eventually did.