Bank account closed, nowhere to go.

upsidedownpancake

cymruchris said:

If she's getting rejected by the likes of Monzo - this might be one of the least worst options to consider - it comes with a sort code and bank account number - and can be used for direct debits - but no hard credit check is made.

"CIFAS National Fraud Database Members"

Advanced Payment Solutions Ltd t/a Cashplus

Maybe not such a great option after all.

cymruchris

upsidedownpancake said:

cymruchris said:

If she's getting rejected by the likes of Monzo - this might be one of the least worst options to consider - it comes with a sort code and bank account number - and can be used for direct debits - but no hard credit check is made.

"CIFAS National Fraud Database Members"

Advanced Payment Solutions Ltd t/a Cashplus

Maybe not such a great option after all.

They may be members - but they also say this:

pcman1985

tehone said:

TomBo91 said:

tehone said:

A more full service app bank like Monzo will be a better long term solution to allow things like DD, but in the interim until she finds our more about why there is CIFAS marker and what she can do then I think in the interim she'll have to make the payments by "hand" instead of DD for the moment.

FWIW, I suspect there is more to the story than she has told you, and that may be worth investigating.

She's already tried Monzo and been rejected.
Yeah I'm suspecting that myself.

Yes, because of the CIFAS marker - any full service bank account is going to reject her. A lot of savings accounts will allow SO (Standing Orders) to be made which may be a short solution to her DD problem.

The issue is the "fraud" and what really happened - its obvious its nothing simple like using a personal account for business - that's a simple contractual account closure.

I don't recommend this at all but maybe one of pseudo business accounts like Tide might work (the ones where they don't have their own banking licence)

Monzo does not check CIFAS as they are not a member, they must have rejected her for another reason.

TomBo91

A_Lert said:

TomBo91 said:

Yeah I was thinking it wasn't that simple myself. I've read a few accounts online where the banks have closed their personal account and requested they open a business account instead. This is just point blank closed. 

Barclays have also written to her letting her know she will not be eligible for any of their products/services in the future.

You said yourself that the not-buyer "reported her to the bank for fraud". Which based on what you have said it wasn't. But whether the not-buyer was honestly mistaken (perhaps thinking 'your friend' was taking money for non-existent puppies), or was misleading or outright dishonest in their report, Barclays have evidently swallowed it without any critical thinking. This presumably accounts for their hardline approach and them passing it on to CIFAS. Like a PP said, banks are spooked nowadays.

'Your friend' may well be without a bank account for some time and needs to be prepared for that. Get wages paid in cash or by another means not requiring a direct bank transfer. Switch bills to another means of payment before companies slap on charges for failed direct debits. Get a prepayment card if possible.

Yeah I've already made her aware of this. I can't see her having an account for a while.

TomBo91

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

Because they are breeding them with the intention of selling them for profit, and doing it on an ongoing basis.
How is that not a business?

If that is the case then why do HMRC not clamp down on breeders?

Limited resources, and a lot of them will be doing it properly, declaring their income.

She is a member of a large hobby breeders group chat on WhatsApp, and has been relaying this information to them. Not one of them has declared themselves as a business because they genuinely don't believe they are.

TomBo91

TheStoozeFather said:

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

Because they are breeding them with the intention of selling them for profit, and doing it on an ongoing basis.
How is that not a business?

If that is the case then why do HMRC not clamp down on breeders?

I wouldn't be so sure that they don't. There's been a lot of rumours relating to a 'Project Wolf' from HMRC insiders.

What does this entail?

NedS

TomBo91 said:

She is a member of a large hobby breeders group chat on WhatsApp, and has been relaying this information to them. Not one of them has declared themselves as a business because they genuinely don't believe they are.

It doesn't much matter what they believe as it's HMRC that set the rules:

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-sole-trader

When you need to set up as a sole trader

You need to set up as a sole trader if any of the following apply:

• you earned more than £1,000 from self-employment between 6 April 2019 and 5 April 2020
• you need to prove you’re self-employed, for example to claim Tax-Free Childcare
• you want to make voluntary Class 2 National Insurance payments to help you qualify for benefits

notveryeducated

cymruchris said:

upsidedownpancake said:

cymruchris said:

If she's getting rejected by the likes of Monzo - this might be one of the least worst options to consider - it comes with a sort code and bank account number - and can be used for direct debits - but no hard credit check is made.

"CIFAS National Fraud Database Members"

Advanced Payment Solutions Ltd t/a Cashplus

Maybe not such a great option after all.

They may be members - but they also say this:

If Cashplus is a member of the CIFAS database, there's no way you're getting an account with them with a CIFAS marker. 

born_again

TomBo91 said:

1. She is a member of a large hobby breeders group chat on WhatsApp, and has been relaying this information to them. Not one of them has declared themselves as a business because they genuinely don't believe they are.

2.
So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

1. If they are making a profit out of the breading. Then as far as HMRC goes then they are fair game going forward. Remember the same goes for any hobby that means you earn over the figure.
Many people got caught out years ago selling stuff on ebay and not reporting their earnings. They too thought that as it was not a business, just a hobby/sideline that the rules did not apply to them.

2.
But if you bought that car for £5K and then sold it 2 weeks later for £7K, what would you be?

In terms of dog breading it's like buying a pup for £1K putting it to stud a year later and selling the 5 puppies for £1K each. Just what do you class that as? So that is over £3K profit in a year. 
A hobby is something you do for pleasure, not profit. Do any of that hobby breading group pass the profit they have made to the dog charities?

Shakin_Steve

Oh, for the old days....when you could walk into the dole office, covered in plaster/paint/oil with tools hanging from your belt, sign on and be back in the van before the traffic warden got you. 😁