Bank account closed, nowhere to go.

sheramber

I am surprised  that a bank will  freeze all accounts  on the say so of a third party without any investigation.
That leaves the way for anybody with a grudge to make a false accusation with serious  consequences.
  

John_

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

Because they are breeding them with the intention of selling them for profit, and doing it on an ongoing basis.
How is that not a business?

If that is the case then why do HMRC not clamp down on breeders?

Limited resources, and a lot of them will be doing it properly, declaring their income.

She is a member of a large hobby breeders group chat on WhatsApp, and has been relaying this information to them. Not one of them has declared themselves as a business because they genuinely don't believe they are.

What of it? You still seem to be grasping for a reason to claim that she’s not running a business, when she clearly is.

The phrase which best applies here to your friend is that if you play stupid games you may win stupid prizes.

Shakin_Steve

sheramber said:

I am surprised  that a bank will  freeze all accounts  on the say so of a third party without any investigation.
That leaves the way for anybody with a grudge to make a false accusation with serious  consequences.
  

Fraudsters make a living out of doing this kind of thing with PayPal.

TomBo91

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

Because they are breeding them with the intention of selling them for profit, and doing it on an ongoing basis.
How is that not a business?

If that is the case then why do HMRC not clamp down on breeders?

Limited resources, and a lot of them will be doing it properly, declaring their income.

She is a member of a large hobby breeders group chat on WhatsApp, and has been relaying this information to them. Not one of them has declared themselves as a business because they genuinely don't believe they are.

What of it? You still seem to be grasping for a reason to claim that she’s not running a business, when she clearly is.

The phrase which best applies here to your friend is that if you play stupid games you may win stupid prizes.

I'm not saying she isn't running a business, I'm saying that she and a lot of people doing similar don't seem to THINK they are running a business. 

John_

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

Because they are breeding them with the intention of selling them for profit, and doing it on an ongoing basis.
How is that not a business?

If that is the case then why do HMRC not clamp down on breeders?

Limited resources, and a lot of them will be doing it properly, declaring their income.

She is a member of a large hobby breeders group chat on WhatsApp, and has been relaying this information to them. Not one of them has declared themselves as a business because they genuinely don't believe they are.

What of it? You still seem to be grasping for a reason to claim that she’s not running a business, when she clearly is.

The phrase which best applies here to your friend is that if you play stupid games you may win stupid prizes.

I'm not saying she isn't running a business, I'm saying that she and a lot of people doing similar don't seem to THINK they are running a business. 

Why, though, that makes no difference.

xlnc99

Alot of bad advice on here from people who quite frankly do not know what they are talking about. Also - not one single suggestion or helpful comments to the OP.

Let me be the first to try and help as i have been in a very similar situation including being marked with a CIFAS.

Firstly the whole nonsense about 'being a business' etc is rubbish. Everyone buys and sells items at some point and a bank transfer is how most pay. Furthermore, truth be told banks dont care too much about personal accounts being used for business purposes as long as its just not for business purposes. Everyone does it. So number 1 - ignore the whole 'business account debate'

Secondly, i do believe your friends story and exactly what has happened. Very similar to me where the buyer has called their bank and quite possibbly your friends bank to make a complaint that your friend has done a bank transfer scam in advertising goods, taking the cash but not delivering the goods. Its as simple as that, and i can guarantee when your friend does a CIFAS SAR it will come back as that and nothing to do with a business account. IT will be marked as some sort of fraud on her CIFAS report.

The good news is, this can be fixed. IF and i mean IF your friend is telling the truth and has all the evidence in terms of text messages, contracts, paperwork etc then she needs to urgently e-mail barclays. I mean e-mail all the management team of Barclays including the CEO, explaining what has happened and provide all the evidence. Let them know how urgent this and how its effected her life, no bank, no money, the stress shes been under, made to look like a criminal etc etc. Give them a sob story and also point the fact that they have marked a CIFAS on her report. Remind Barclays how they never asked her for her account of the events etc etc. You know the drill.

They will respond and this will get sorted, hopefully the bank account will be reinstated.

I had the same situation with funnily enough the same bank. All god resolved, plus i got compensation. Just follow my advice.

Banks are always too quick to make judgement. Once an accusation of fraud, stolen money etc is made, you are buggered. Whether its true or not, banks 9/10 see you guilty.

eskbanker

xlnc99 said:

not one single suggestion or helpful comments to the OP.

Let me be the first to try and help

If only someone had concisely posted within half an hour of the thread being started that "she should find out from CIFAS exactly what's been reported to them and take it up with Barclays from there", eh?

cymruchris

xlnc99 said:

Also - not one single suggestion or helpful comments to the OP.

My knowledge of CIFAS is limited - so I avoided giving 'bad advice' - but did think the suggestion of Cashplus as a short term solution to 'needing a direct debit account' now was helpful, as they clearly state they don't conduct any credit check when opening an account, and that on verification of identity only you are 100 percent guaranteed to get an account. That would no doubt be helpful to someone in this position. 

sheramber

xlnc99 said:

 
Firstly the whole nonsense about 'being a business' etc is rubbish. Everyone buys and sells items at some point and a bank transfer is how most pay.  

Do they draw up a contract that they get the  buyer to sign when they sell their   goods?
So the framer who sells his animals   is not running a business?

TomBo91

xlnc99 said:

Alot of bad advice on here from people who quite frankly do not know what they are talking about. Also - not one single suggestion or helpful comments to the OP.

Let me be the first to try and help as i have been in a very similar situation including being marked with a CIFAS.

Firstly the whole nonsense about 'being a business' etc is rubbish. Everyone buys and sells items at some point and a bank transfer is how most pay. Furthermore, truth be told banks dont care too much about personal accounts being used for business purposes as long as its just not for business purposes. Everyone does it. So number 1 - ignore the whole 'business account debate'

Secondly, i do believe your friends story and exactly what has happened. Very similar to me where the buyer has called their bank and quite possibbly your friends bank to make a complaint that your friend has done a bank transfer scam in advertising goods, taking the cash but not delivering the goods. Its as simple as that, and i can guarantee when your friend does a CIFAS SAR it will come back as that and nothing to do with a business account. IT will be marked as some sort of fraud on her CIFAS report.

The good news is, this can be fixed. IF and i mean IF your friend is telling the truth and has all the evidence in terms of text messages, contracts, paperwork etc then she needs to urgently e-mail barclays. I mean e-mail all the management team of Barclays including the CEO, explaining what has happened and provide all the evidence. Let them know how urgent this and how its effected her life, no bank, no money, the stress shes been under, made to look like a criminal etc etc. Give them a sob story and also point the fact that they have marked a CIFAS on her report. Remind Barclays how they never asked her for her account of the events etc etc. You know the drill.

They will respond and this will get sorted, hopefully the bank account will be reinstated.

I had the same situation with funnily enough the same bank. All god resolved, plus i got compensation. Just follow my advice.

Banks are always too quick to make judgement. Once an accusation of fraud, stolen money etc is made, you are buggered. Whether its true or not, banks 9/10 see you guilty.

Thank you for your help. She has already lodged a complaint with Barclays, however I will ask her to send an email