Bank account closed, nowhere to go.

TomBo91

Hi all, 

Looking for some advice for a friend here, who is currently at breaking point due to Barclays Bank.

My friend is a dog breeder, and recently had trouble with a new buyer. The buyer pulled out of the transaction, and when my friend wouldn't return the deposit (non-refundable as stated in contract) the buyer reported her to the bank for fraud.

Barclays subsequently froze, and then closed her account citing the reason as "running a business from a personal account". The issue being that she isn't a business, and this is only her second litter of pups. Throughout all of this Barclays have refused to discuss the matter with her at all, and still refuse to do so. She has not been able to appeal or give her side of the story, and it has left her pretty stressed.

A few days ago she managed to get a new bank account through Halifax, and everything seemed ok until they closed her account today. They have told her Barclays have raised a report to CIFAS, and the only hope she has is to appeal to the financial ombusdmen (which could take months). She has children and animals to care for and is now at a complete loose end and doesn't have a clue what to do.

Can anyone possibly advise on her next steps, or indeed tell me if there seems to be some information missing here. I only know what I'm being told.

jonesMUFCforever

It's amazing how many people who post on here don't know that they are running a business!
There is certainly missing information here all from your 'friend'.
People do not get their accounts closed AND a CIFAS marker without something dodgy going on (which obviously your 'friend' has not disclosed to you).

Having said that the best way for ward is to do a search on CIFAS to see exactly what has been put on there.
Perhaps there is a local building society that may open an account for her.
I would not be tempted to help your 'friend' if she asks 'please can you pay this for me or can I get this credit paid through your account'.

TomBo91

jonesMUFCforever said:

It's amazing how many people who post on here don't know that they are running a business!
There is certainly missing information here all from your 'friend'.
People do not get their accounts closed AND a CIFAS marker without something dodgy going on (which obviously your 'friend' has not disclosed to you).

Having said that the best way for ward is to do a search on CIFAS to see exactly what has been put on there.
Perhaps there is a local building society that may open an account for her.
I would not be tempted to help your 'friend' if she asks 'please can you pay this for me or can I get this credit paid through your account'.

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business? 

Yeah I was thinking that I never got the full story, and probably won't do without asking and offending her. 

She hasn't asked for anything like that, and besides I don't think she'd come to me for that anyway.

eskbanker

Barclays have every right to close her account if they believe it's being used for business purposes, and it's easy to see why they'd conclude this, given talk of contracts specifying non-refundable deposits.

However, assigning a CIFAS marker seems harsh so she should find out from CIFAS exactly what's been reported to them and take it up with Barclays from there - if she hasn't already then she should log a formal complaint with Barclays about the CIFAS marker (not the account closure) if she hasn't been given the opportunity to clarify her side of the story.

Thrugelmir

TomBo91 said:

My friend is a dog breeder, and recently had trouble with a new buyer. The buyer pulled out of the transaction, and when my friend wouldn't return the deposit (non-refundable as stated in contract) the buyer reported her to the bank for fraud.

If someone has gone to the trouble of having a sale contract drawn up most certainly sounds like a business. Rather than a hobby. At the very least it's an activity the HMRC will be interest to hear of. 

TomBo91

Thrugelmir said:

TomBo91 said:

My friend is a dog breeder, and recently had trouble with a new buyer. The buyer pulled out of the transaction, and when my friend wouldn't return the deposit (non-refundable as stated in contract) the buyer reported her to the bank for fraud.

If someone has gone to the trouble of having a sale contract drawn up most certainly sounds like a business. Rather than a hobby. At the very least it's an activity the HMRC will be interest to hear of. 

Do you think the contract has potentially been the downfall then?

I've just asked her about the "contract" and to be honest isn't actually a proper contract as such, more an agreement.

In this she stipulates the deposit to be paid on a given date, and this will only be returned if she is not happy with the buyer. Then it goes into the dates the pups need vaccinations etc.

born_again

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business? 

Yeah I was thinking that I never got the full story, and probably won't do without asking and offending her. 

She hasn't asked for anything like that, and besides I don't think she'd come to me for that anyway.

>>>My friend is a dog breeder<<< from the OP.

One set of puppies does not make you a dog breeder. But if she is doing it every year, then it does.
If we did that with our 2 dogs and got 5 pups from each. We would be looking at at least £10K a year.
If they have a clause that if they are not happy with the buyer they will refund, then why not refund someone who decides they do not to take a puppy. Would that really be someone you want to sell a puppy too?

colsten

TomBo91 said:

My friend is a dog breeder....

...... deposit (non-refundable as stated in contract).....

.....isn't actually a proper contract as such, more an agreement.......

I am afraid, it sounds like a business, and a slightly dodgy one at that if there's a debate over whether a contract is a contract or an agreement. Fruitless debate, anyway, as it won't get her a bank account.

As has been suggested already, your friend needs to first get a CIFAS SAR. If there are further questions once she has got that, she could come back here, or call in her local Citizens Advice for further guidance. 

TomBo91

born_again said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business? 

Yeah I was thinking that I never got the full story, and probably won't do without asking and offending her. 

She hasn't asked for anything like that, and besides I don't think she'd come to me for that anyway.

>>>My friend is a dog breeder<<< from the OP.

One set of puppies does not make you a dog breeder. But if she is doing it every year, then it does.
If we did that with our 2 dogs and got 5 pups from each. We would be looking at at least £10K a year.
If they have a clause that if they are not happy with the buyer they will refund, then why not refund someone who decides they do not to take a puppy. Would that really be someone you want to sell a puppy too?

Yeah this is only her second litter, the previous one being last year.

I've spoken with her again (getting more information all the time now) and apparently this was because the prospective buyer cancelled when the pup was 4 weeks old as her landlord didn't allow pets. My friend challenged this (correctly in my opinion) stating she should have consulted with her landlord weeks before. There was a bit of back and forth, some angry text messages were exchanged and the buyer then said she was going to report it as fraud if my friend didn't return her money immediately. My friend subsequently returned the deposit, and was reported anyway.

NedS

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

sheramber

isn't actually a proper contract as such, more an agreement.
In this she stipulates the deposit to be paid on a given date, and this will only be returned if she is not happy with the buyer. Then it goes into the dates the pups need vaccinations etc.
So, it is a written contract which  she expects thee buyer to adhere to it.
definition of a contract -a written or spoken agreement,