Bank account closed, nowhere to go.

TomBo91

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

pramsay13

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

TomBo91

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

John_

TomBo91 said:

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

Because they are breeding them with the intention of selling them for profit, and doing it on an ongoing basis.
How is that not a business?

TomBo91

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

Because they are breeding them with the intention of selling them for profit, and doing it on an ongoing basis.
How is that not a business?

If that is the case then why do HMRC not clamp down on breeders?

tehone

On a practical front, get an account with one of the app only mastercard debit places like Hyperjar. Takes minutes to open, and day or two get a card (a downside with the one I suggested is that it doesn't allow ATM use)
Open a savings account with a different bank/building society/post office/etc, and keep most of your money there, obviously with an ATM card, and then transfer money around / make payments using faster payments

TomBo91

tehone said:

On a practical front, get an account with one of the app only mastercard debit places like Hyperjar. Takes minutes to open, and day or two get a card (a downside with the one I suggested is that it doesn't allow ATM use)
Open a savings account with a different bank/building society/post office/etc, and keep most of your money there, obviously with an ATM card, and then transfer money around / make payments using faster payments

I've already suggested this to her, however she has Direct Debits that need to be met. Apparently you can't claim DDs from a card only account.

tehone

A more full service app bank like Monzo will be a better long term solution to allow things like DD, but in the interim until she finds our more about why there is CIFAS marker and what she can do then I think in the interim she'll have to make the payments by "hand" instead of DD for the moment.

FWIW, I suspect there is more to the story than she has told you, and that may be worth investigating.

wetbrick

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

To be fair, if you bought certain classic cars, it is not beyond the realms to sell it a year later for a profit especially if you buy well and add a bit TLC. 

TomBo91

tehone said:

A more full service app bank like Monzo will be a better long term solution to allow things like DD, but in the interim until she finds our more about why there is CIFAS marker and what she can do then I think in the interim she'll have to make the payments by "hand" instead of DD for the moment.

FWIW, I suspect there is more to the story than she has told you, and that may be worth investigating.

She's already tried Monzo and been rejected.
Yeah I'm suspecting that myself.