Bank account closed, nowhere to go.

Shakin_Steve

These days it only takes a sniff of wrongdoing to spook the banks, and they seem to shoot first and ask questions later. But placing a CIFAS marker suggests something more serious. Your friend must send a SAR to CIFAS, as @Colsten suggested earlier. Then, at least, she will have an idea of the accusation against her. Anything else is just conjecture.

tehone

TomBo91 said:

tehone said:

A more full service app bank like Monzo will be a better long term solution to allow things like DD, but in the interim until she finds our more about why there is CIFAS marker and what she can do then I think in the interim she'll have to make the payments by "hand" instead of DD for the moment.

FWIW, I suspect there is more to the story than she has told you, and that may be worth investigating.

She's already tried Monzo and been rejected.
Yeah I'm suspecting that myself.

Yes, because of the CIFAS marker - any full service bank account is going to reject her. A lot of savings accounts will allow SO (Standing Orders) to be made which may be a short solution to her DD problem.

The issue is the "fraud" and what really happened - its obvious its nothing simple like using a personal account for business - that's a simple contractual account closure.

I don't recommend this at all but maybe one of pseudo business accounts like Tide might work (the ones where they don't have their own banking licence)

TomBo91

tehone said:

TomBo91 said:

tehone said:

A more full service app bank like Monzo will be a better long term solution to allow things like DD, but in the interim until she finds our more about why there is CIFAS marker and what she can do then I think in the interim she'll have to make the payments by "hand" instead of DD for the moment.

FWIW, I suspect there is more to the story than she has told you, and that may be worth investigating.

She's already tried Monzo and been rejected.
Yeah I'm suspecting that myself.

Yes, because of the CIFAS marker - any full service bank account is going to reject her. A lot of savings accounts will allow SO (Standing Orders) to be made which may be a short solution to her DD problem.

The issue is the "fraud" and what really happened - its obvious its nothing simple like using a personal account for business - that's a simple contractual account closure.

I don't recommend this at all but maybe one of pseudo business accounts like Tide might work (the ones where they don't have their own banking licence)

Yeah I was thinking it wasn't that simple myself. I've read a few accounts online where the banks have closed their personal account and requested they open a business account instead. This is just point blank closed. 

Barclays have also written to her letting her know she will not be eligible for any of their products/services in the future.

noh

Is she licensed as a dog breeder?
From your info she should be. A license would be required by
"Anyone breeding puppies and advertising a business of selling them,. This is irrespective of the number of litters produced per year. This is not restricted to registered businesses – individuals can also be classed as a business depending on the extent of their activities."

http://www.cfsg.org.uk/The Animal Welfare Licensing of Activities Involvi/d. Dog Breeding Guidance April 2020 HIGHLIGHTED CHANGES.pdf

TomBo91

noh said:

Is she licensed as a dog breeder?
From your info she should be. A license would be required by
"Anyone breeding puppies and advertising a business of selling them,. This is irrespective of the number of litters produced per year. This is not restricted to registered businesses – individuals can also be classed as a business depending on the extent of their activities."

Yes she is, she's got a breeder number.

A_Lert

TomBo91 said:

Yeah I was thinking it wasn't that simple myself. I've read a few accounts online where the banks have closed their personal account and requested they open a business account instead. This is just point blank closed. 

Barclays have also written to her letting her know she will not be eligible for any of their products/services in the future.

You said yourself that the not-buyer "reported her to the bank for fraud". Which based on what you have said it wasn't. But whether the not-buyer was honestly mistaken (perhaps thinking 'your friend' was taking money for non-existent puppies), or was misleading or outright dishonest in their report, Barclays have evidently swallowed it without any critical thinking. This presumably accounts for their hardline approach and them passing it on to CIFAS. Like a PP said, banks are spooked nowadays.

'Your friend' may well be without a bank account for some time and needs to be prepared for that. Get wages paid in cash or by another means not requiring a direct bank transfer. Switch bills to another means of payment before companies slap on charges for failed direct debits. Get a prepayment card if possible.

upsidedownpancake

tehone said:

TomBo91 said:

tehone said:

A more full service app bank like Monzo will be a better long term solution to allow things like DD, but in the interim until she finds our more about why there is CIFAS marker and what she can do then I think in the interim she'll have to make the payments by "hand" instead of DD for the moment.

FWIW, I suspect there is more to the story than she has told you, and that may be worth investigating.

She's already tried Monzo and been rejected.
Yeah I'm suspecting that myself.

Yes, because of the CIFAS marker - any full service bank account is going to reject her. A lot of savings accounts will allow SO (Standing Orders) to be made which may be a short solution to her DD problem.

The issue is the "fraud" and what really happened - its obvious its nothing simple like using a personal account for business - that's a simple contractual account closure.

I don't recommend this at all but maybe one of pseudo business accounts like Tide might work (the ones where they don't have their own banking licence)

But then she'd be running her personal business through a strictly business account, which is basically the reverse of what got her in trouble with Barclays.

John_

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

Because they are breeding them with the intention of selling them for profit, and doing it on an ongoing basis.
How is that not a business?

If that is the case then why do HMRC not clamp down on breeders?

Limited resources, and a lot of them will be doing it properly, declaring their income.

TheStoozeFather

TomBo91 said:

John_ said:

TomBo91 said:

pramsay13 said:

TomBo91 said:

NedS said:

TomBo91 said:

Forgive my lack of knowledge on this, however why is privately selling one litter of pups a year a business?

From HMRC's perspective, if you make more than £1000 per year (before expenses) then you need to be registered with HMRC as self employed (so you have a business). Now I'm not an expert when it comes to dogs, but from the prices I've heard that puppies sell for, and the average number of puppies per litter, I would guess that by HMRC's definition, selling just one litter is easily going to put you over the limit as what would be considered a business. So at the very least I would hope your friend is registered with HMRC as self employed, is submitting self assessment tax returns annually, and for the purposes of this forum, will need a business bank account. IMHO Barclays are well within their rights to close the account.

So, for arguments sake say I sell my car for £7,000. I replace it with another car costing £3,000. I've made £4,000, therefore do I need to declare that I'm self employed? 

That's not the way economics work. 
I assume you paid £7000 or more for the original car. 

Like I said it was for arguments sake. I'm just trying to understand why someone who sells a few puppies once a year would have to be declared as self employed.

Having done a lot of research when looking for a puppy myself years ago, I can tell you that a huge percentage of private dog breeders are not registered as self employed or a business, because they don't think they are that. Look at all the private dog ads on websites like gumtree or pets4homes, they are all individuals.

Because they are breeding them with the intention of selling them for profit, and doing it on an ongoing basis.
How is that not a business?

If that is the case then why do HMRC not clamp down on breeders?

I wouldn't be so sure that they don't. There's been a lot of rumours relating to a 'Project Wolf' from HMRC insiders.

cymruchris

If she's getting rejected by the likes of Monzo - this might be one of the least worst options to consider - it comes with a sort code and bank account number - and can be used for direct debits - but no hard credit check is made.

https://cashplus.com/