Landscaping job done incorrectly - company says they did what they were told

brumbill

We’ve just had work done to our patio. We’ve had 20mm porcelain slabs laid. The guys who’ve done it have butt joined them, so there's (virtually) no gap between them. We’ve since been told that such slabs should have at the very minimum, a 3mm gap, preferably more. Otherwise this leads to cracking and ‘spalling’ of the slabs over time.

I’ve raised this with them, and, 4 days later, they’ve come back to say that they have done what we told them to do and they informed us that there would be problems if they laid the slabs like that, but we told them to anyway. This is not true at all!

What would normally happen in this scenario? Aside from the fact that they are outright lying, wouldn’t most traders refuse to do work requested by the customer if they knew it would be faulty, or at least get it in writing? For example, if you told a roofer you wanted 2 inch gaps between all your roof tiles they would just say no as it will leak? He wouldn’t just say ‘that’s a bad idea but I’ll do it anyway - the customer is always right’?

Also, how does payment work in this scenario? The job is complete, and the only reason we know it’s been done wrong is by chance. Aesthetically it’s fine, so we told them we were happy when they left - we didn’t know any better at the time. I’m guessing they were hoping to get away with it. Do you have to pay for completed work and then try to make a claim back against it under trade descriptions or something? As to rectify they would basically have to excavate it all, do it all again AND cover the cost of the slabs.

I know there’s places you can go to search for your rights under this (and have done) but just wondered if anyone on here had first hand experience of it or what you would do as a tradesman in this sort of scenario. If they theyre doing Something which is guaranteed to cause issues because ‘we told them to’ (We didn’t!!) would you not normally have put it in writing first?

any help would be greatly appreciated as they’re chasing payment and refusing to meet to discuss until the invoice is settled, but I know once they get the money from us it’s very hard to get them to do anything about their mistake

pinkshoes

Who have you "since" been told by? Is this person qualified and prepared to put it in writing that they have examined the work and the slabs have been laid incorrectly?

The law you are looking for is the 2015 Consumer Rights Act where goods need to be fit for purpose and to contract. 

The fact they are saying you told them to put them up against each other is worrying. Is this an experienced company?!?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

brumbill said:

 Aside from the fact that they are outright lying, wouldn’t most traders refuse to do work requested by the customer if they knew it would be faulty, or at least get it in writing? For example, if you told a roofer you wanted 2 inch gaps between all your roof tiles they would just say no as it will leak? He wouldn’t just say ‘that’s a bad idea but I’ll do it anyway - the customer is always right’?

Consumer rights act covers this:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/49/enacted

Service to be performed with reasonable care and skill

(1)Every contract to supply a service is to be treated as including a term that the trader must perform the service with reasonable care and skill.

As an aside what were the slabs laid on? i.e what was the based for the patio? 

brumbill

hi

the company that sold the slabs advised they have been fitted wrong, as has a friend’s partner who has 30 years experience in building and landscaping.

Worryingly The company who did it have over 20 years experience too. I can’t get my head round the notion of claiming they just do what the customer says even if it’s wrong. Surely the tradesman is responsible for heir own actions and wouldn’t ever do something wrong that they could be held accountable for?

brumbill

The base is cement with slurry on the slabs to adhere them, which we’ve been advised is right

ToxicWomble

I would suggest that you have no claim untill there is actually an issue with them/it
Wise to get your ducks lined up now though just in case

stragglebod

Find out the likely effect of the incorrect installation. For example, if it reduces the likely lifetime of the patio by 5 years, how does that diminish the value? Get a professional to estimate that for you, as well as the cost of redoing it properly.

williamgriffin

I can't see how it will cause spalling or cracking of the slabs because of the lack of gap. Spalling is caused by water getting into the slab and freezing and thawing. Cracking would occur from movement or and impact.

The manufacturers recommend a 5mm gap so there's no doubt they haven't been laid to recommendations. If they have done all the prep work correctly the problem is aesthetics and you're unlikely to save any slabs if you lift them. The slurry would see them correctly
 bonded to the sub base. 

I would suggest if they haven't  laid them correctly there will be other errors. 

brumbill

We’ve said that we’d like to meet to discuss it with them and find an amicable solution, but that we aren’t willing to pay for the work until we can find a resolution

and they’ve said they will just go to their solicitors

brumbill

williamgriffin said:

I can't see how it will cause spalling or cracking of the slabs because of the lack of gap. Spalling is caused by water getting into the slab and freezing and thawing. Cracking would occur from movement or and impact.

The manufacturers recommend a 5mm gap so there's no doubt they haven't been laid to recommendations. If they have done all the prep work correctly the problem is aesthetics and you're unlikely to save any slabs if you lift them. The slurry would see them correctly
 bonded to the sub base. 

I would suggest if they haven't  laid them correctly there will be other errors. 

Thanks for this - this is essentially the question we asked to start with, basically ‘we’ve been informed the gap should be bigger and that not doing so will cause problems, as you are the professionals can you confirm this’ and were hoping they’d just give reasons why it was all ok and we didn’t need tonworry

the fact that they haven’t and have instead concocted a lie to cover their backs to me suggests they know they’ve messed up

are you knowledgeable about this? If so, if 20mm porcelain slabs are laid on slurry and cement, but butted with the only gap at the very top where the edges are bevelled, what are the actual risks? Is it likely to got wrong/lift/crack?

mattyprice4004

What did you actually say to them? Did you tell them to do it the way it was done, or did you leave the choice of method down to you? 

If you advised them how to do it, you need to shoulder some of the responsibility here; yes they're the expert, but if they're acting on your clear instruction then it's unfair to pin all of the blame on them.