Landscaping job done incorrectly - company says they did what they were told

Jumblebumble

comeandgo said:

I would imagine if you pay nothing the landscapers will take you to court then it's up to you to prove your complaint is valid.  You will need evidence from experts.  This you will have to pay for.  You have no guarantee you will win.

Why do you think it necessary for the OP to be  paying an expert to tell a district judge that the slabs were not laid in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations and that no gap between the tiles is  highly likely to involve cracking if any shrinkage of the substrate occurs.
After all the Contractors will be unlikely to produce their  expert to say the manufacturers are incorrect
I believe that this would be an easy win in court. but it is as you say not guaranteed but that applies to every court case

stragglebod

comeandgo said:

I would imagine if you pay nothing the landscapers will take you to court then it's up to you to prove your complaint is valid.  You will need evidence from experts.  This you will have to pay for.  You have no guarantee you will win.

It seems to me common ground that the slabs were not laid in accordance with the manufacturer's guidance; what's in dispute is who is responsible for that. The court will make their decision on the balance of probability. That means deciding which of the following is more likely:

1. We're experts, and we know exactly how to lay these slabs, but the client, who is not an expert, told us to lay them wrongly. We just did what the client told us, after all, they're the expert. Oh hang on, no, we are aren't we? So we laid the slabs wrongly, knowing we were doing it wrong, because someone who wouldn't be expected to know how to lay them told us how to lay them. Oh, and no, we didn't get written confirmation about that before we started, why do you ask?
2. I got these people in to lay the slabs because they claimed to know what they were doing, but it turns out they don't.

waamo

pleasedelete said:

brumbill said:

Had Free legal advice today and have been told that we don’t pay them a thing as the contract was for all the works Together and they haven’t met the contract. Apparently need to write to them and give them 14 days to come and fix the problem or we can get someone else to do it and bill them for the work.

Oh dear...

Free legal advice?
Hmm. 

At this point you havent paid them and so if you are to bill them for remedial work you will have to pay them first? 

It's not available everywhere but you can see if there is a local scheme here https://www.lawworks.org.uk/legal-advice-individuals/find-legal-advice-clinic-near-you

brumbill

stragglebod said:

comeandgo said:

I would imagine if you pay nothing the landscapers will take you to court then it's up to you to prove your complaint is valid.  You will need evidence from experts.  This you will have to pay for.  You have no guarantee you will win.

It seems to me common ground that the slabs were not laid in accordance with the manufacturer's guidance; what's in dispute is who is responsible for that. The court will make their decision on the balance of probability. That means deciding which of the following is more likely:

1. We're experts, and we know exactly how to lay these slabs, but the client, who is not an expert, told us to lay them wrongly. We just did what the client told us, after all, they're the expert. Oh hang on, no, we are aren't we? So we laid the slabs wrongly, knowing we were doing it wrong, because someone who wouldn't be expected to know how to lay them told us how to lay them. Oh, and no, we didn't get written confirmation about that before we started, why do you ask?
2. I got these people in to lay the slabs because they claimed to know what they were doing, but it turns out they don't.

This is amazing, thank you. I feel
like the only reason they are disputing it is because they don’t want the expense and hassle of redoing it, and they are chasing payment for the wall because the less money we hold back the more we would then have to chase them for at a later date if they refuse to come back to do the work and we have to pay someone else to rectify it.

brumbill

We have a separate quote now for the wall. The figures seem very odd. Sent on Tuesday, chased it last night (saw it today). We haven’t responded to either yet but...

Today went out to take pictures of the slabs to send to the manufacturer And noticed that the mortar on some of the wall is cracked and the pennant is loose. They also made a cement step onto our drive which is cracked and broken too.

wesleyad

stragglebod said:

1.  Oh, and no, we didn't get written confirmation about that before we started, why do you ask?

That's the key really. For the contractors story to hold any water, they would certainly have got something in writing to say they had given their opinion that the slabs were to be laid incorrectly due to customers wishes and that the customer took full responsibility. That they didn't either means they are lying, or are incompetent, either way they are at fault.

loveka

I just wanted to empathise, as I had exactly this situation with a builder. He blamed me for him laying the slabs incorrectly, saying I had not told him the correct way to do it or shared the manufacturer's guidance. In fact, I had given him their guidance but he hadn't read it!

It was very stressful, and in the end he didn't charge me for the labour. I have still ended up with a rubbish floor though, and of course I paid for the tiles.

In your shoes I would not pay up and let them take you to the small claims court. You can then counter claim.

If course, there would be no guarantee that you would get any money as he could dissolve the business.

brumbill

loveka said:

I just wanted to empathise, as I had exactly this situation with a builder. He blamed me for him laying the slabs incorrectly, saying I had not told him the correct way to do it or shared the manufacturer's guidance. In fact, I had given him their guidance but he hadn't read it!

It was very stressful, and in the end he didn't charge me for the labour. I have still ended up with a rubbish floor though, and of course I paid for the tiles.

In your shoes I would not pay up and let them take you to the small claims court. You can then counter claim.

If course, there would be no guarantee that you would get any money as he could dissolve the business.

Thank you for this, although I wouldn’t want anyone else to go through anything similar, it’s at least a little comforting to know it’s not just us!

sadly they have now resorted to abusing my wife in the playground at school, in front of our children.

tacpot12

brumbill said:

loveka said:

I just wanted to empathise, as I had exactly this situation with a builder. He blamed me for him laying the slabs incorrectly, saying I had not told him the correct way to do it or shared the manufacturer's guidance. In fact, I had given him their guidance but he hadn't read it!

It was very stressful, and in the end he didn't charge me for the labour. I have still ended up with a rubbish floor though, and of course I paid for the tiles.

In your shoes I would not pay up and let them take you to the small claims court. You can then counter claim.

If course, there would be no guarantee that you would get any money as he could dissolve the business.

Thank you for this, although I wouldn’t want anyone else to go through anything similar, it’s at least a little comforting to know it’s not just us!

sadly they have now resorted to abusing my wife in the playground at school, in front of our children.

While this is unfortunate, their child-like behaviour is enough to tell you that you are winning the battle with them.

DoaM

Make sure she (or a friend) videos this abuse. Then you have evidence of harassment to give to the Police should it become necessary to take that avenue.