Planning Application - Neighbour Taking Photographs without Permission

Mickey666

davidmcn said:

Mickey666 said:

davidmcn said:

Mickey666 said:

if someone trespasses to take photos not visible from a public space and then posts them onto a public forum such that the owners insurance increases due to security issues, would the owner then be able to sue for damages, ie the increased insurance cost?

No. And I've never heard of insurers asking a relevant question which would lead to such an increase in premiums.

Given that we can see from other posts on this forum that even buyers (and their solicitors) can't be bothered looking at planning papers relating to the properties they're dealing with, do we really think the criminal classes are casing joints by flicking through objections to planning applications? If it's that's easy to have a look, why wouldn't they just go and do it themselves?

trespassing to take photos must surely be an invasion of privacy?

Not something which is actionable though. Invasion of privacy court actions have been about e.g. paparazzi taking photos of people in circumstances where there'd be an expectation of privacy. Can't see it covering some pics of a barn.

Why would there be no expectation of privacy just because it is a barn?  If any part of your property is not visible from any public space then surely it's reasonable to have an expectation of privacy?  Looking at it from another angle, do you have any expectation of someone entering your private property, not visible from a public space, in order to take photos? 

If you leave your back door open while, say, you are mowing your lawn, is it reasonable to expect your home to remain private or would it be acceptable for someone to sneak in (no breaking and enerting, no damage) and take photos of your, say, bedroom?  That must surely be an invasion of privacy by anyone's sense of natural justice.

Perhaps the OP could apply for a restraining order on the person concerned to prevent him from tresspassing on his private land under threat of being in contempt of court?   THAT would cetainly be an actionable offence wouldn't it?

davidmcn

Mickey666 said:

davidmcn said:

Mickey666 said:

davidmcn said:

Mickey666 said:

if someone trespasses to take photos not visible from a public space and then posts them onto a public forum such that the owners insurance increases due to security issues, would the owner then be able to sue for damages, ie the increased insurance cost?

No. And I've never heard of insurers asking a relevant question which would lead to such an increase in premiums.

Given that we can see from other posts on this forum that even buyers (and their solicitors) can't be bothered looking at planning papers relating to the properties they're dealing with, do we really think the criminal classes are casing joints by flicking through objections to planning applications? If it's that's easy to have a look, why wouldn't they just go and do it themselves?

trespassing to take photos must surely be an invasion of privacy?

Not something which is actionable though. Invasion of privacy court actions have been about e.g. paparazzi taking photos of people in circumstances where there'd be an expectation of privacy. Can't see it covering some pics of a barn.

Why would there be no expectation of privacy just because it is a barn?

Because there was nobody there doing anything private.

If any part of your property is not visible from any public space then surely it's reasonable to have an expectation of privacy?  Looking at it from another angle, do you have any expectation of someone entering your private property, not visible from a public space, in order to take photos? 

If you leave your back door open while, say, you are mowing your lawn, is it reasonable to expect your home to remain private or would it be acceptable for someone to sneak in (no breaking and enerting, no damage) and take photos of your, say, bedroom?  That must surely be an invasion of privacy by anyone's sense of natural justice.

"Natural justice" isn't the law. And entering a bedroom (while you're elsewhere on the property) is a rather different affair from being outside a barn, while nobody else is there.

Perhaps the OP could apply for a restraining order on the person concerned to prevent him from tresspassing on his private land under threat of being in contempt of court?   THAT would cetainly be an actionable offence wouldn't it?

They'd first need to persuade the court that such an order is necessary. From what we've been told it sounds like a one-off visit to take the photos.

Mickey666

What about the privacy of someone's possessions?  That's a form of personal privacy isn't it?  They might not want anyone else to know they have a £250k Ferrari in their barn.

Yes, I know 'natural justice' is not the law but I'm finding it hard to understand why someone trespassing in an empty bedroom is a rather different affair than trespassing in an empty barn, or garden shed, or anywhere else on private land.  Surely the owner has a reasonable expectation that their private spaces shold not be invaded?

I take your point about a court order being difficult/impossible unless the person concerned is a repeat offender.

snowcat75

drumlinruby said:

Not sure if anyone can help us & may not be the correct place to post but... we are looking at buying an old barn to do up & live in. We have put in a planning application & a neighbour has gone onto private property, taken lots of pictures & posted them online, including the Local Authority planning website.. Is he allowed to do this & if not, any suggestions about how to get them taken down?
Any comments, very much appreciated. 
Thank you.

Are you putting the planning through on a part Q as PD?, if so in realty there's not a jot that anyone can do to stop it?

Unfortunately trespass is civil law (something which is set to change fortunately) so unless your going to take them through the courts there not masses you can do.
As someone who lives rurally I completely understand, We suffer with a fair few break ins so  take a very dim view of anyone around my yard, If pictures were taken of anything other than the view and posted quite frankly I would pay them a visit and have a "quite chat", perhaps take some picture of there back garden and post them on FB might hit the point home. 

drumlinruby

snowcat75 said:

drumlinruby said:

Not sure if anyone can help us & may not be the correct place to post but... we are looking at buying an old barn to do up & live in. We have put in a planning application & a neighbour has gone onto private property, taken lots of pictures & posted them online, including the Local Authority planning website.. Is he allowed to do this & if not, any suggestions about how to get them taken down?
Any comments, very much appreciated. 
Thank you.

Are you putting the planning through on a part Q as PD?, if so in realty there's not a jot that anyone can do to stop it?

Unfortunately trespass is civil law (something which is set to change fortunately) so unless your going to take them through the courts there not masses you can do.
As someone who lives rurally I completely understand, We suffer with a fair few break ins so  take a very dim view of anyone around my yard, If pictures were taken of anything other than the view and posted quite frankly I would pay them a visit and have a "quite chat", perhaps take some picture of there back garden and post them on FB might hit the point home. 

Yes, under Class Q, which is why we are reluctant to make any changes to the barn (for additional security) whilst planning is still being considered. This may seem dodgy to the planners?? We have taken everyone's comments onboard & appreciate that when it comes to planning it's to be done openly but farm machinery & equipment is not cheap to replace or risk increased insurance premiums, so we do not want it 'advertised'!!

warby68

Have you considered asking the neighbour just to remove those particular shots?
Its not what you asked but it might just solve a problem if they are open to reason.
I get your concern but truthfully I don't think there will be any more criminals scouring the planning portals than are having a chance scout around themselves and for a farm to have farm equipment is not exactly a surprise. A dog and some good security lights?

Mickey666

snowcat75 said:

Unfortunately trespass is civil law (something which is set to change fortunately) . . .

Ah, that's interesting.  Do you have any references?  Not doubting you for one minute but I've not heard of this and it could be very useful to know.  TIA.

trex227

warby68 said:

Have you considered asking the neighbour just to remove those particular shots?
Its not what you asked but it might just solve a problem if they are open to reason.
I get your concern but truthfully I don't think there will be any more criminals scouring the planning portals than are having a chance scout around themselves and for a farm to have farm equipment is not exactly a surprise. A dog and some good security lights?

Round here the criminal element doesn’t even take the risk of having a scout around, they use microlights and take photos from the air to decide what they’re going to nick!

snowcat75

Mickey666 said:

snowcat75 said:

Unfortunately trespass is civil law (something which is set to change fortunately) . . .

Ah, that's interesting.  Do you have any references?  Not doubting you for one minute but I've not heard of this and it could be very useful to know.  TIA.

It was under the Tories manifesto, although that's possibly somewhat in the air now!!, of course the leftwing press have dubbed it as racist, but I seldom doubt there plagued with fly tippers and hare coursers and have kit stolen on a monthly basis. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-boris-johnson-trespass-law-gypsies-travellers-fox-hunting-manifesto-a9227511.html

snowcat75

drumlinruby said:

snowcat75 said:

drumlinruby said:

Not sure if anyone can help us & may not be the correct place to post but... we are looking at buying an old barn to do up & live in. We have put in a planning application & a neighbour has gone onto private property, taken lots of pictures & posted them online, including the Local Authority planning website.. Is he allowed to do this & if not, any suggestions about how to get them taken down?
Any comments, very much appreciated. 
Thank you.

Are you putting the planning through on a part Q as PD?, if so in realty there's not a jot that anyone can do to stop it?

Unfortunately trespass is civil law (something which is set to change fortunately) so unless your going to take them through the courts there not masses you can do.
As someone who lives rurally I completely understand, We suffer with a fair few break ins so  take a very dim view of anyone around my yard, If pictures were taken of anything other than the view and posted quite frankly I would pay them a visit and have a "quite chat", perhaps take some picture of there back garden and post them on FB might hit the point home. 

Yes, under Class Q, which is why we are reluctant to make any changes to the barn (for additional security) whilst planning is still being considered. This may seem dodgy to the planners?? We have taken everyone's comments onboard & appreciate that when it comes to planning it's to be done openly but farm machinery & equipment is not cheap to replace or risk increased insurance premiums, so we do not want it 'advertised'!!

I wouldn't worry too much about securing it, the actual appearance of the building can be changed it just cant pultrude from its original shape, the planners work from the historic date of March the 20th 2013 for agricultural use (to stop a new building going up and being used) so what it is today doesn't really matter and when the planners inspected mine there was 3 ford Anglia's parked in there!! .......

The only thing that matters under the framework of class Q are these points.
 (a) transport and highways impacts of the development,
 (b) noise impacts of the development,
(c) contamination risks on the site,
 (d) flooding risks on the site, or
(e) whether the location or siting of the building makes it otherwise impractical or undesirable for the building to change from agricultural use to a use falling within Class C3 (dwellinghouses) of the Schedule to the Use Classes Order, and
(f) the design or external appearance of the building

Unless your neighbor has a valid case backed with evidence to object and prove one of the above the council will have no legal obligation to uphold or even consider your neighbor, this is permitted development, rather than planning. 

But id agree advertising anything with wheals or tracks is a bad idea, its amazing that things so big can vanish so quickly. In this case I may even break the rule of a lifetime and speek to the council direct to get the pictures removed.

Just as a side note you may also want to speak to an accountant sooner rather than latter, If you do get development then there will become a rather nasty tax liability which will fall onto the original owner, there are ways of rolling this into the property, but its important to get it sorted as what you paying him for the building may not even cover the CG tax!!!