Neon Reef - any views?

[Deleted User]

Ofgem has just announced British Gas as SOLR for MoneyPlus and PFP in its daily email bulletin.

No mention of Pure Planet or anything else…

Jinglish

1. If there was no safety net then no one would move from the big 6, and therefore there would be no smaller firms anyway- the fact is that there IS a safety net therefore people would be daft not to take advantage of it where possible. NR could be fine through all of this and come out stronger in April, and we have saved a fortune over the winter, and that’s just as likely as they were supposed to go bust yesterday according to reports and yet here we are still…

2. Maybe he is with NR, and doesn’t want to be stuffed?  Or maybe if he said go to NR, that would shut the company even quicker 

The point I'm trying to make is; NF are enticing customers with unviable rates and front loading DD's to get as much cash as possible up front. I could be wrong but this feels like the owners of the limited company are grabbing as much as they possibly can then will declare "bust" once the pot has been rinsed. The company folds with no personal liability to the directors, leaving a company owning customers a lot of money that has to be ported over to a bigger supplier who picks up the tab and the extra admin burden. They will pass this extra cost down to customers at some point so everyone loses overall. This is what I mean by fuelling the fire. I hope I'm wrong and NF are doing this to stay afloat but I can't see how this is viable.

WillPS

wittynamegoeshere said:

It seems obvious that this has to be what's going on.

Directors can be held personally liable if they are trading while insolvent, they stand to lose their mansion(s), cars, yachts, trophy wives, the lot.  Whether this actually happens in practice is another matter, usually white collar crime gets ignored in this country.  Basically if they owe more than they have then they should have already declared themselves bankrupt.

Either they have pots of gold that they aren't telling anyone about, or Ofgem just aren't doing their job.

That's an oversimplification. Bankruptcy does not occur when there is a debt which the company can't pay, bankruptcy occurs when a company is unable to service its debts adequately. You can have as many loans as you want and still have liquidity, but the moment the company no longer has a way to make an adequate payment, or one of those loans is called in by the bank and the company can't pay it - the company is insolvent.

There are many high profile examples of businesses which have huge amounts of debt, so much so that it is unlikely they will ever be paid off - but as long as their lenders are happy to let them continue they remain solvent. New Look is a high profile example that falls off the top of my head.

WillPS

The 'credible plan for paying it off' would be markups on sales of utilities sold at retail and bought wholesale. The fact that is impossible in the present tense does not mean it's not a credible plan.

(I'm not saying I think Neon Reef is safe or even might be OK, just saying that we should maybe stop short of out and out libeling their directors.)

jrio

zoonyx said:

ozuma said:

nobby1963 said:

ozuma said:

nobby1963 said:

ozuma said:

nobby1963 said:

ozuma said:

nobby1963 said:

Hi All,
A bit of advice and information if anyone can help me please ……
We became a NR customer yesterday and they took our first DD yesterday too.
I know the possible risks of them going bust are now getting greater, or at least it seems so.
My problems are that so far I haven’t received a single response to any of the 3 emails I have sent to them, I tried calling them but there’s a recording telling you to use email. I have sent emails to both help@ and compliants@ but no joy.
My SMET 2 smart meter doesn’t work - should I expect it to ?
More concerning though is my main unit Smart meter is reading zero !
How can I supply a meter reading if it says zero - it shouldn’t, we were with EDF before and it was working fine up to overnight Monday just gone.
Any help or advice greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Nobby.

What telephone number did you call?

Hi,

This is the number I called - 0345 8622819 - it’s the only number I have and it’s the one they said to use in the emails that they have sent ( automated, not in response to my emails ! ).
Does anyone have a number that actually gets answered ?

Cheers 
Nobby.

What was the subject matter of the automated emails Neon Reef sent you that were not in response to an emails you sent?

The only reference I can find to that number in this country is by somone posting it on Trustpilot months ago.

No they were just as I said automated, thanks for joining us, here’s your first DD amount and when we will be taking it.

Well, you learn something everyday here.

I never knew Neon Reef even sent a 'Thanks for joining us' email

They do send a 'Welcome to Neon Reef!' email, and that includes their welcome pack. That is in response to you making an application for them to supply you.

The welcome pack includes confirmation of how much your monthly DD will be and when it will be first collected.

But no where in that email or the attached file is there a phone number I can see for Neon Reef.

As you seem obsessed with this, and presumably think I am imagining it, here’s a screenshot of one of the emails, not a welcome pack, which did come later in the process.

Unfortunately, that letter does not originate from Neon Reef, but from their DD agent, PSL.

You can tell that because it looks like PSL have not updated the NR address. They are showing the old UP address, and NR moved from there months ago.
Their current trading address is as shown on their website.

I suspect the phone number provided is an advice line provided by PSL

I'm still getting automated emails from Avro asking for meter readings and whether I'm sure I want to switch.  Just automated systems without the people anymore Suspect NR is the same...

Actually got a reply to an NR email today, from Dave.  Took 12 days.

elucidate

Only just found out that the third supplier to go bust this week is Daligas. 

Also in yesterday: "Fears over ‘domino effect’ of energy supplier collapse as gas shipper CNG stops deliveries"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/energy-crisis-gas-supplies-cng-b1938385.html?amp

Anyone know if CNG is part of Neon Reef's supply chain? 

Shedman

elucidate said:

Only just found out that the third supplier to go bust this week is Daligas. 

Also in yesterday: "Fears over ‘domino effect’ of energy supplier collapse as gas shipper CNG stops deliveries"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/energy-crisis-gas-supplies-cng-b1938385.html?amp

Anyone know if CNG is part of Neon Reef's supply chain? 

NR don't supply gas so unlikely

elucidate

Quote:

Suppliers without a shipper will now have to pay the National Grid for the cost incurred, Lowery said, 'which has been equivalent to a rate approximately three times the implied wholesale gas price in the Winter 2021-22 default tariff cap'.

He added: 'Suppliers with existing contracts with a supplier that ceases providing its services could be forced to unwind their positions and re-hedge them with a new shipper – which would again incur a cost assuming such an action was possible.

'The increased use of imbalance will be reflected in wider gas system costs and spread across all users.'  

Andy Harris, consultant to the board of green energy firm Neon Reef, told This is Money there is a good chance a number of GNG's UK gas supplier customers will go under.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-10095625/amp/Multiple-gas-suppliers-bust-week-CNG-Group-cuts-UK.html

wittynamegoeshere

I'd suggest that as they're doing the exact opposite of every other supplier, it would be reasonable for them to make some sort of public statement to explain how they're able to defy gravity like this.  Otherwise speculation is all we have, and negative conclusions are entirely reasonable.

One supplier was caught switching customers without their permission - FROM them to anyone else!  Meanwhile NR is unconditionally welcoming everyone with open arms, selling below the cap price and making a loss on every new signup.

Perhaps they have a secret billionaire backer who just wants to give money away.  Otherwise their actions make no sense at all.

MWT

While I generally feel the same degree of suspicion, one theoretical answer would be that they have over-hedged their requirements for the winter and if they cannot increase their demand they would be losing money...

I very much doubt that is the case, but it is at least a possibility ...