Universal Credit - Going on holiday

TheShape

tomtom256 said:

donnajunkie said:

Well it is a contradiction because whatever the reason for going away is, it has been said here that if you normally attend the jobcentre weekly you would not be exempted from this. How many people are going to fly home once a week to attend a jobcentre appointment? A combination of appointments and 35hr jobsearch requirements make it impossible to go away to do whatever you plan to do, holiday or not.

The chance of somebody going on holiday for a month whilst in receipt of means tested benefit is pretty much unheard of.

In my experience it is not uncommon.  Anecdotally it appears that the common factor for a month long (or otherwise lengthy period) absence is a claimant travelling to a country where they have resident family members.  In these instances the claimant may have no accommodation costs and indeed may have lower living costs than they may have had at home.

donnajunkie

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Robbie64 said:

Iain Duncan-Smith, when UC was being devised, made a big thing about the rules around people on JSA being able to take a 2 week holiday. He said it was wrong and so UC has been devised that if you are required to job search for 35 hours per week then that is what you must do.

UC is flexible in that if you have extenuating circumstances (temporary illness, family emergency) the work coach has the discretion to not enforce the hours of work search for a short period of time. But yes, the overall intention is that if your circumstances are such that under the legislation you should be working, then looking for work *is* your job until you find paid employment - and comes with possible compassionate leave and sick leave, but not paid holiday.

To be perfectly honest, unless a holiday was booked and paid for before income was low enough to be eligible for UC, I have no idea how claimants might be able to afford a month's holiday abroad anyway! Unless maybe they go to stay with family and can get cheap flights, or perhaps a single person staying in a hostel. For our family even a week in the UK in the cheapest caravan we could find was a struggle, and 2 weeks within the UK is only possible now because we are all adults with income (I'm the only one claiming benefits, everyone else's income is from work) and can share the cost.

I think we need to stop assuming people would all want to go away for a month. It could just be a week or even a long weekend. And in the uk. In my view its a nonesense when someone says its your job to look for work because if it were like a job you would get allocated holidays.

donnajunkie

tomtom256 said:

donnajunkie said:

Well it is a contradiction because whatever the reason for going away is, it has been said here that if you normally attend the jobcentre weekly you would not be exempted from this. How many people are going to fly home once a week to attend a jobcentre appointment? A combination of appointments and 35hr jobsearch requirements make it impossible to go away to do whatever you plan to do, holiday or not.

The chance of somebody going on holiday for a month whilst in receipt of means tested benefit is pretty much unheard of.

I work for a living and could not afford a holiday for a month or more, hence the reason it probably wasn't really put in the legislation.
I believe they have used the old tax credits and HB regs when they merged this rule into UC.
But a two week holiday, which is the norm for most people I know, would be ok. I often re-arrange appointments to suit a holiday etc as to me, everyone needs a break regardless of their cirumsrances. However with legacy benefits, you have to sign to get your money so it isn't possible to do this.

Unless you have been an idiot with your work coach, I cannot see a normal holiday or even an extended holiday being denied and/or appointments not being re-arranged to accomodate.
There are many DWP staff/civil servants that claim UC or WTC/CTC who fall under the same rules.

Thanks,
how would it affect what is required of them while away?

calcotti

tomtom256 said:

There are many DWP staff/civil servants that claim UC or WTC/CTC who fall under the same rules.

Although they presumably are not on full job search requirements and maybe in light touch regime.

Spoonie_Turtle

donnajunkie said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Robbie64 said:

Iain Duncan-Smith, when UC was being devised, made a big thing about the rules around people on JSA being able to take a 2 week holiday. He said it was wrong and so UC has been devised that if you are required to job search for 35 hours per week then that is what you must do.

UC is flexible in that if you have extenuating circumstances (temporary illness, family emergency) the work coach has the discretion to not enforce the hours of work search for a short period of time. But yes, the overall intention is that if your circumstances are such that under the legislation you should be working, then looking for work *is* your job until you find paid employment - and comes with possible compassionate leave and sick leave, but not paid holiday.

To be perfectly honest, unless a holiday was booked and paid for before income was low enough to be eligible for UC, I have no idea how claimants might be able to afford a month's holiday abroad anyway! Unless maybe they go to stay with family and can get cheap flights, or perhaps a single person staying in a hostel. For our family even a week in the UK in the cheapest caravan we could find was a struggle, and 2 weeks within the UK is only possible now because we are all adults with income (I'm the only one claiming benefits, everyone else's income is from work) and can share the cost.

I think we need to stop assuming people would all want to go away for a month. It could just be a week or even a long weekend. And in the uk. In my view its a nonesense when someone says its your job to look for work because if it were like a job you would get allocated holidays.

Your point was that the rules contradict by saying you can be away for a month but they don't allow you to go on holiday, that's the only reason I'm talking about a month. Yes you pretty much can go on a week's holiday in the UK as long as you can fulfil your commitments, and even easier to do that with a long weekend, so I still don't see the problem.

I'm also not saying I agree that looking for a job *should* be a full-time job, I know how soul-destroying it is from a couple of long stints of unemployment some years ago and to have to do it week in and week out is just horrendous. What I'm saying is that is the intention behind the rules.

donnajunkie

Spoonie_Turtle said:

donnajunkie said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Robbie64 said:

Iain Duncan-Smith, when UC was being devised, made a big thing about the rules around people on JSA being able to take a 2 week holiday. He said it was wrong and so UC has been devised that if you are required to job search for 35 hours per week then that is what you must do.

UC is flexible in that if you have extenuating circumstances (temporary illness, family emergency) the work coach has the discretion to not enforce the hours of work search for a short period of time. But yes, the overall intention is that if your circumstances are such that under the legislation you should be working, then looking for work *is* your job until you find paid employment - and comes with possible compassionate leave and sick leave, but not paid holiday.

To be perfectly honest, unless a holiday was booked and paid for before income was low enough to be eligible for UC, I have no idea how claimants might be able to afford a month's holiday abroad anyway! Unless maybe they go to stay with family and can get cheap flights, or perhaps a single person staying in a hostel. For our family even a week in the UK in the cheapest caravan we could find was a struggle, and 2 weeks within the UK is only possible now because we are all adults with income (I'm the only one claiming benefits, everyone else's income is from work) and can share the cost.

I think we need to stop assuming people would all want to go away for a month. It could just be a week or even a long weekend. And in the uk. In my view its a nonesense when someone says its your job to look for work because if it were like a job you would get allocated holidays.

Your point was that the rules contradict by saying you can be away for a month but they don't allow you to go on holiday, that's the only reason I'm talking about a month. Yes you pretty much can go on a week's holiday in the UK as long as you can fulfil your commitments, and even easier to do that with a long weekend, so I still don't see the problem.

I'm also not saying I agree that looking for a job *should* be a full-time job, I know how soul-destroying it is from a couple of long stints of unemployment some years ago and to have to do it week in and week out is just horrendous. What I'm saying is that is the intention behind the rules.

The point is why would you go away if you have to spend all day looking for work. The reason for going away is to do something else. And you may not have access to the internet while away.

Spoonie_Turtle

donnajunkie said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

donnajunkie said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Robbie64 said:

Iain Duncan-Smith, when UC was being devised, made a big thing about the rules around people on JSA being able to take a 2 week holiday. He said it was wrong and so UC has been devised that if you are required to job search for 35 hours per week then that is what you must do.

UC is flexible in that if you have extenuating circumstances (temporary illness, family emergency) the work coach has the discretion to not enforce the hours of work search for a short period of time. But yes, the overall intention is that if your circumstances are such that under the legislation you should be working, then looking for work *is* your job until you find paid employment - and comes with possible compassionate leave and sick leave, but not paid holiday.

To be perfectly honest, unless a holiday was booked and paid for before income was low enough to be eligible for UC, I have no idea how claimants might be able to afford a month's holiday abroad anyway! Unless maybe they go to stay with family and can get cheap flights, or perhaps a single person staying in a hostel. For our family even a week in the UK in the cheapest caravan we could find was a struggle, and 2 weeks within the UK is only possible now because we are all adults with income (I'm the only one claiming benefits, everyone else's income is from work) and can share the cost.

I think we need to stop assuming people would all want to go away for a month. It could just be a week or even a long weekend. And in the uk. In my view its a nonesense when someone says its your job to look for work because if it were like a job you would get allocated holidays.

Your point was that the rules contradict by saying you can be away for a month but they don't allow you to go on holiday, that's the only reason I'm talking about a month. Yes you pretty much can go on a week's holiday in the UK as long as you can fulfil your commitments, and even easier to do that with a long weekend, so I still don't see the problem.

I'm also not saying I agree that looking for a job *should* be a full-time job, I know how soul-destroying it is from a couple of long stints of unemployment some years ago and to have to do it week in and week out is just horrendous. What I'm saying is that is the intention behind the rules.

The point is why would you go away if you have to spend all day looking for work. The reason for going away is to do something else. And you may not have access to the internet while away.

You know you can do your required hours in any pattern you want? Doesn't have to be 9-5 Mon-Fri with an hour for lunch, and you don't have to have the internet to be posting spec letters and CVs if you're organised enough to take company addresses away with you. (And if you're on UC without the internet at home or on a smartphone then one wonders how you'd fulfill the requirement of frequently checking the journal anyway.)

I think I'm done here.

poppy12345

Spoonie_Turtle said:

donnajunkie said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

donnajunkie said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Robbie64 said:

Iain Duncan-Smith, when UC was being devised, made a big thing about the rules around people on JSA being able to take a 2 week holiday. He said it was wrong and so UC has been devised that if you are required to job search for 35 hours per week then that is what you must do.

UC is flexible in that if you have extenuating circumstances (temporary illness, family emergency) the work coach has the discretion to not enforce the hours of work search for a short period of time. But yes, the overall intention is that if your circumstances are such that under the legislation you should be working, then looking for work *is* your job until you find paid employment - and comes with possible compassionate leave and sick leave, but not paid holiday.

To be perfectly honest, unless a holiday was booked and paid for before income was low enough to be eligible for UC, I have no idea how claimants might be able to afford a month's holiday abroad anyway! Unless maybe they go to stay with family and can get cheap flights, or perhaps a single person staying in a hostel. For our family even a week in the UK in the cheapest caravan we could find was a struggle, and 2 weeks within the UK is only possible now because we are all adults with income (I'm the only one claiming benefits, everyone else's income is from work) and can share the cost.

I think we need to stop assuming people would all want to go away for a month. It could just be a week or even a long weekend. And in the uk. In my view its a nonesense when someone says its your job to look for work because if it were like a job you would get allocated holidays.

Your point was that the rules contradict by saying you can be away for a month but they don't allow you to go on holiday, that's the only reason I'm talking about a month. Yes you pretty much can go on a week's holiday in the UK as long as you can fulfil your commitments, and even easier to do that with a long weekend, so I still don't see the problem.

I'm also not saying I agree that looking for a job *should* be a full-time job, I know how soul-destroying it is from a couple of long stints of unemployment some years ago and to have to do it week in and week out is just horrendous. What I'm saying is that is the intention behind the rules.

The point is why would you go away if you have to spend all day looking for work. The reason for going away is to do something else. And you may not have access to the internet while away.

I think I'm done here.

My thoughts exactly yesterday when the OP decided to start to twist things in another thread...

calcotti

donnajunkie said: The point is why would you go away if you have to spend all day looking for work. The reason for going away is to do something else. And you may not have access to the internet while away.

You are expected to do certain things in order to maintain your entitlement, it is your choice whether or not you choose to go away. 

donnajunkie

calcotti said:

donnajunkie said: The point is why would you go away if you have to spend all day looking for work. The reason for going away is to do something else. And you may not have access to the internet while away.

You are expected to do certain things in order to maintain your entitlement, it is your choice whether or not you choose to go away. 

The point is the rules make it impossible to go away. So on one hand the rules say you can go away, on the other the rules make it impossible to go away.