Universal Credit - Going on holiday

donnajunkie

NedS said:

donnajunkie said:

NedS said:

There is no concept of holidays on UC. You must report you are leaving the country. Normal procedure is to book you an appointment for shortly after you state you will be back, to confirm you are back in the country. If it's less than a month it can be disregarded as stated above. If you are out of the country for more than a month without good reason that can be disregarded, the claim will be closed as gone abroad.

In addition to the disregard for being out of the country up to one month, you will still be required to meet any conditionality you may be subject to. So if you are expected to be looking for work / attending weekly or fortnightly appointments, and DWP decide to book you an appointment whilst you are away, you could be subject to a sanction when you fail to attend. Obviously that is unlikely in the current circumstances but that is the normal procedure.

Why would they book you an appointment for a time when you told them you would be away? Do they expect people to do 35 hours per week even when on holiday?

As I said in the first sentence above - there is no concept of holidays on UC. If you are expected to look for work and attend weekly or fortnightly appointments, that does not change because the claimant wants to go on holiday. Work coaches do have discretion though depending on the circumstances

It seems then that the rules contradict. You can go away on holiday for upto a month but must still do the usual 35hrs etc. Which basically means you cant go away.

donnajunkie

Spoonie_Turtle said:

NedS said:

donnajunkie said:

NedS said:

There is no concept of holidays on UC. You must report you are leaving the country. Normal procedure is to book you an appointment for shortly after you state you will be back, to confirm you are back in the country. If it's less than a month it can be disregarded as stated above. If you are out of the country for more than a month without good reason that can be disregarded, the claim will be closed as gone abroad.

In addition to the disregard for being out of the country up to one month, you will still be required to meet any conditionality you may be subject to. So if you are expected to be looking for work / attending weekly or fortnightly appointments, and DWP decide to book you an appointment whilst you are away, you could be subject to a sanction when you fail to attend. Obviously that is unlikely in the current circumstances but that is the normal procedure.

Why would they book you an appointment for a time when you told them you would be away? Do they expect people to do 35 hours per week even when on holiday?

As I said in the first sentence above - there is no concept of holidays on UC. If you are expected to look for work and attend weekly or fortnightly appointments, that does not change because the claimant wants to go on holiday. Work coaches do have discretion though depending on the circumstances

It was the same on JSA before. My brother was sanctioned for going on holiday to Wales for a week a few years ago (I forget what the specifics were).

On jsa you must fill in a going away form and hand it in the day before. You must do any jobsearch related tasks you agree to do while away. You also must be contactable and willing to come back for a job interview. You also must report back to the jobcentre on your first day back. Do all of that and you should not be sanctioned.

Spoonie_Turtle

donnajunkie said:

NedS said:

donnajunkie said:

NedS said:

There is no concept of holidays on UC. You must report you are leaving the country. Normal procedure is to book you an appointment for shortly after you state you will be back, to confirm you are back in the country. If it's less than a month it can be disregarded as stated above. If you are out of the country for more than a month without good reason that can be disregarded, the claim will be closed as gone abroad.

In addition to the disregard for being out of the country up to one month, you will still be required to meet any conditionality you may be subject to. So if you are expected to be looking for work / attending weekly or fortnightly appointments, and DWP decide to book you an appointment whilst you are away, you could be subject to a sanction when you fail to attend. Obviously that is unlikely in the current circumstances but that is the normal procedure.

Why would they book you an appointment for a time when you told them you would be away? Do they expect people to do 35 hours per week even when on holiday?

As I said in the first sentence above - there is no concept of holidays on UC. If you are expected to look for work and attend weekly or fortnightly appointments, that does not change because the claimant wants to go on holiday. Work coaches do have discretion though depending on the circumstances

It seems then that the rules contradict. You can go away on holiday for upto a month but must still do the usual 35hrs etc. Which basically means you cant go away.

I'm not sure the intention was for the rules to cover holiday, it's more likely to cover family emergencies or going abroad for medical care, in which circumstances the work coach should be exercising discretion and not expecting you to do 35 hours of job search whilst stressing about whatever more urgent things are happening. Of course if you have lower work search requirements or only work prep or no work-related requirements, it's a bit easier to fulfill any commitments whilst away.

donnajunkie said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

NedS said:

donnajunkie said:

NedS said:

There is no concept of holidays on UC. You must report you are leaving the country. Normal procedure is to book you an appointment for shortly after you state you will be back, to confirm you are back in the country. If it's less than a month it can be disregarded as stated above. If you are out of the country for more than a month without good reason that can be disregarded, the claim will be closed as gone abroad.

In addition to the disregard for being out of the country up to one month, you will still be required to meet any conditionality you may be subject to. So if you are expected to be looking for work / attending weekly or fortnightly appointments, and DWP decide to book you an appointment whilst you are away, you could be subject to a sanction when you fail to attend. Obviously that is unlikely in the current circumstances but that is the normal procedure.

Why would they book you an appointment for a time when you told them you would be away? Do they expect people to do 35 hours per week even when on holiday?

As I said in the first sentence above - there is no concept of holidays on UC. If you are expected to look for work and attend weekly or fortnightly appointments, that does not change because the claimant wants to go on holiday. Work coaches do have discretion though depending on the circumstances

It was the same on JSA before. My brother was sanctioned for going on holiday to Wales for a week a few years ago (I forget what the specifics were).

On jsa you must fill in a going away form and hand it in the day before. You must do any jobsearch related tasks you agree to do while away. You also must be contactable and willing to come back for a job interview. You also must report back to the jobcentre on your first day back. Do all of that and you should not be sanctioned.

Like I said, I can't remember the specifics. I know he told them about it (it had been booked months before he even started his claim - family holiday) and he was contactable because they phoned him. I don't know what happened exactly to be sanctioned (he'd done everything that he was aware he needed to) or if he appealed or just took the hit; it was several years ago.

calcotti

donnajunkie said:

NedS said:

donnajunkie said:

NedS said:

There is no concept of holidays on UC. You must report you are leaving the country. Normal procedure is to book you an appointment for shortly after you state you will be back, to confirm you are back in the country. If it's less than a month it can be disregarded as stated above. If you are out of the country for more than a month without good reason that can be disregarded, the claim will be closed as gone abroad.

In addition to the disregard for being out of the country up to one month, you will still be required to meet any conditionality you may be subject to. So if you are expected to be looking for work / attending weekly or fortnightly appointments, and DWP decide to book you an appointment whilst you are away, you could be subject to a sanction when you fail to attend. Obviously that is unlikely in the current circumstances but that is the normal procedure.

Why would they book you an appointment for a time when you told them you would be away? Do they expect people to do 35 hours per week even when on holiday?

As I said in the first sentence above - there is no concept of holidays on UC. If you are expected to look for work and attend weekly or fortnightly appointments, that does not change because the claimant wants to go on holiday. Work coaches do have discretion though depending on the circumstances

It seems then that the rules contradict. You can go away on holiday for upto a month but must still do the usual 35hrs etc. Which basically means you cant go away.

There is no contradiction. You can be abroad for a month. There is nothing about holidays. Obviously for those without any work search requirement such as carers or those with LCW they could go on holiday abroad without too much difficulty. However if you have work search and work availability commitments it is a risk and you need to take your tablet/laptop with you so hat you can continue to work search (or do related activity).

donnajunkie

calcotti said:

donnajunkie said:

NedS said:

donnajunkie said:

NedS said:

There is no concept of holidays on UC. You must report you are leaving the country. Normal procedure is to book you an appointment for shortly after you state you will be back, to confirm you are back in the country. If it's less than a month it can be disregarded as stated above. If you are out of the country for more than a month without good reason that can be disregarded, the claim will be closed as gone abroad.

In addition to the disregard for being out of the country up to one month, you will still be required to meet any conditionality you may be subject to. So if you are expected to be looking for work / attending weekly or fortnightly appointments, and DWP decide to book you an appointment whilst you are away, you could be subject to a sanction when you fail to attend. Obviously that is unlikely in the current circumstances but that is the normal procedure.

Why would they book you an appointment for a time when you told them you would be away? Do they expect people to do 35 hours per week even when on holiday?

As I said in the first sentence above - there is no concept of holidays on UC. If you are expected to look for work and attend weekly or fortnightly appointments, that does not change because the claimant wants to go on holiday. Work coaches do have discretion though depending on the circumstances

It seems then that the rules contradict. You can go away on holiday for upto a month but must still do the usual 35hrs etc. Which basically means you cant go away.

There is no contradiction. You can be abroad for a month. There is nothing about holidays. Obviously for those without any work search requirement such as carers or those with LCW they could go on holiday abroad without too much difficulty. However if you have work search and work availability commitments it is a risk and you need to take your tablet/laptop with you so hat you can continue to work search (or do related activity).

Well it is a contradiction because whatever the reason for going away is, it has been said here that if you normally attend the jobcentre weekly you would not be exempted from this. How many people are going to fly home once a week to attend a jobcentre appointment? A combination of appointments and 35hr jobsearch requirements make it impossible to go away to do whatever you plan to do, holiday or not.

calcotti

donnajunkie said:

Well it is a contradiction because whatever the reason for going away is, it has been said here that if you normally attend the jobcentre weekly you would not be exempted from this. How many people are going to fly home once a week to attend a jobcentre appointment? A combination of appointments and 35hr jobsearch requirements make it impossible to go away to do whatever you plan to do, holiday or not.

It would be very unusual to have to attend on a weekly basis. If attending on a fortnightly basis then going away for a month would indeed be impossible but that doesn’t mean there is a contradiction in the rules. The fact that a month away can be disregarded doesn’t mean that everybody will be able to take advantage of that possible disregard.

The rules are not written to support claimants taking holidays abroad. However the rules are such that some claimants would be able to do so without loss of benefit.

Robbie64

Iain Duncan-Smith, when UC was being devised, made a big thing about the rules around people on JSA being able to take a 2 week holiday. He said it was wrong and so UC has been devised that if you are required to job search for 35 hours per week then that is what you must do.

If you intend to leave Great Britain then you are expected to tell your Wok Coach before you go and you are still expected to jobsearch for 35 hours per week. You are also expected to be able to take a job with 24 hours notice (longer, a week I think, if you do voluntary work or have some caring responsibilities). Obviously the way things are at the moment there is some leeway but the law is that you have to be readily contactable as part of the contract for you receiving UC. You really are pushing it going away for a month. At the very least you will need to inform your Work Coach that you will be leaving GB. At least the way the rules work with UC you are allowed to leave GB. Under JSA your claim would have been closed if you went abroad. Most people who were going abroad when on JSA used to say they were going on holiday within Britain. The giveaway was when they went to sign on with a tan that couldn't be got in Britain!

calcotti

And of course, as noted in one of my previous replies, there are many UC claimants who do not have work search requirements and have no need to attend the JobCentre. Carer’s and people with LCW are obvious examples but this is also true of those in work who are receiving UC to top up their income.
Because UC replaces several existing benefits the rules need to cover a wider range of situations.

Spoonie_Turtle

Robbie64 said:

Iain Duncan-Smith, when UC was being devised, made a big thing about the rules around people on JSA being able to take a 2 week holiday. He said it was wrong and so UC has been devised that if you are required to job search for 35 hours per week then that is what you must do.

UC is flexible in that if you have extenuating circumstances (temporary illness, family emergency) the work coach has the discretion to not enforce the hours of work search for a short period of time. But yes, the overall intention is that if your circumstances are such that under the legislation you should be working, then looking for work *is* your job until you find paid employment - and comes with possible compassionate leave and sick leave, but not paid holiday.

To be perfectly honest, unless a holiday was booked and paid for before income was low enough to be eligible for UC, I have no idea how claimants might be able to afford a month's holiday abroad anyway! Unless maybe they go to stay with family and can get cheap flights, or perhaps a single person staying in a hostel. For our family even a week in the UK in the cheapest caravan we could find was a struggle, and 2 weeks within the UK is only possible now because we are all adults with income (I'm the only one claiming benefits, everyone else's income is from work) and can share the cost.

tomtom256

donnajunkie said:

Well it is a contradiction because whatever the reason for going away is, it has been said here that if you normally attend the jobcentre weekly you would not be exempted from this. How many people are going to fly home once a week to attend a jobcentre appointment? A combination of appointments and 35hr jobsearch requirements make it impossible to go away to do whatever you plan to do, holiday or not.

The chance of somebody going on holiday for a month whilst in receipt of means tested benefit is pretty much unheard of.

I work for a living and could not afford a holiday for a month or more, hence the reason it probably wasn't really put in the legislation.
I believe they have used the old tax credits and HB regs when they merged this rule into UC.
But a two week holiday, which is the norm for most people I know, would be ok. I often re-arrange appointments to suit a holiday etc as to me, everyone needs a break regardless of their cirumsrances. However with legacy benefits, you have to sign to get your money so it isn't possible to do this.

Unless you have been an idiot with your work coach, I cannot see a normal holiday or even an extended holiday being denied and/or appointments not being re-arranged to accomodate.
There are many DWP staff/civil servants that claim UC or WTC/CTC who fall under the same rules.