Message from ABTA A disgrace.

zagfles

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Sounds like my idea of hell, that would stress me out far too much to be enjoyable! I want to know as much info as possible in advance, I can't cope well with the spontaneity factor - it would be far more relaxing to just not have any holidays...

Hmm...compared to the stress of paying £14k up front and then not knowing whether your holiday will go ahead, and then finding out it won't and stressing over whether or not you'll get your money back, or whether you'll get vouchers that may prove useless...that's more like my idea of hell! As some people in this thread are experiencing right now!

Each to their own, we're all different. You have to appreciate that different people approach things in a different way - my wife suffers with severe anxiety so just wouldn't be able to do what you could do. Even though I'm not an anxious person myself, it still does reflect onto and affect me, and in some ways even though we balance each other out slightly it still ends up in the anxious zone.

I'm actually chasing refund/vouchers from Virgin Holidays for a very expensive family holiday now, significantly over £14k - should have been flying back from Florida all tanned and relaxed last week... Combination of 4 significant birthdays in our close family plus a significant wedding anniversary meant that I had 4 holidays booked this year, with 3 in this country. This is a very unique time - at no other point in my life have I been unable to take my planned holidays. Obviously I may need to rethink how this works in the future, but I'm not stressing about getting refunds etc - I've paid for the holidays upfront, I'm not having to pay off credit cards or other debts, I can afford it.

That causes you less stress than booking cancellable accomodation/flights in the first place? You don't have to bother with the next step of trying to get cheaper/better alternatives at the last minute if that would cause stress. Especially if money is no object!

This situation is not that unique, similar happened when the Icelandic volcano decided to cause chaos, there was a separate board set up here for that too with people having all kinds of hassle. Plus there are loads of personal reasons you might decide to cancel which the insurance might not cover, some they do but for instance someone I know decided to cancel their holiday because their dog was ill (crazy in my view - but that was their decision, said they wouldn't enjoy the holiday worrying), insurance didn't cover it, so they lost the lot.

But again, the point is that although some, probably even most, people will carry on as before, yourself included by the sounds of it, but some might decide to do things differently and not commit so much up front. Pure speculation of course.

zagfles

What frustrates me about this forum is that a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that different people have different priorities. 

Like who? I've said time and time again, for SOME people they might be persuaded to do things differently. Not all. Coming up with different ideas, different ways of doing things is what forums are for. It might not be for you, but you don't need to get into a huff when someone suggests different ways of doing things, even if those different ways aren't for you.

zagfles

blindman said:

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Sounds like my idea of hell, that would stress me out far too much to be enjoyable! I want to know as much info as possible in advance, I can't cope well with the spontaneity factor - it would be far more relaxing to just not have any holidays...

Hmm...compared to the stress of paying £14k up front and then not knowing whether your holiday will go ahead, and then finding out it won't and stressing over whether or not you'll get your money back, or whether you'll get vouchers that may prove useless...that's more like my idea of hell! As some people in this thread are experiencing right now!

Each to their own, we're all different. You have to appreciate that different people approach things in a different way - my wife suffers with severe anxiety so just wouldn't be able to do what you could do. Even though I'm not an anxious person myself, it still does reflect onto and affect me, and in some ways even though we balance each other out slightly it still ends up in the anxious zone.

I'm actually chasing refund/vouchers from Virgin Holidays for a very expensive family holiday now, significantly over £14k - should have been flying back from Florida all tanned and relaxed last week... Combination of 4 significant birthdays in our close family plus a significant wedding anniversary meant that I had 4 holidays booked this year, with 3 in this country. This is a very unique time - at no other point in my life have I been unable to take my planned holidays. Obviously I may need to rethink how this works in the future, but I'm not stressing about getting refunds etc - I've paid for the holidays upfront, I'm not having to pay off credit cards or other debts, I can afford it.

I started reading all of the replies to Zagfles but got a little lost if I'm honest.
What I think (s)he was trying to say -with which I agree- is
A LOT of people STILL think that the only way to get what they want for a holiday -"Good seats on a plane, great hotels, best tours, etc is to give a SHED LOAD of money to a Travel agent and to let them sort it for them.
                  Some people are just PLAIN LAZY-so if they have more money that "Get up and go" then so be it.
                  Some people should not be let near the Internet-We're not all geniuses' But it would not hurt to try.

BIG problem with that is-Well -NOW you cannot get your money back!

YOU have given a HUGE amount of money to a third party who is NOT INTERESTED in your holiday but THEIR PROFIT.
For something you could have easily done yourselves either probably cheaper.

This has always been the case but now it has been thrust out into the open for all to see.

I do really hope that once this is over -Well, become the norm- that these people realise  that Travel agents should go the same way as the Dinosaurs.
BTW
I have planned my holidays independanlty for the last 40 years.
Cancellabel hotels, DIY tours, car hire and flights using Frequent Flyer miles where possible.

I was in Australia on March 5th, due to return via South Pacific 17th May.
Rearranged the return 30th March, all flights, accommodation cancelled at no cost.

Simples. 

Sorry, completely OT, but did you ever do your trip report for your RTW epic, I was looking forwards to it! https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75708744#Comment_75708744

blindman

ComicGeek said

I find that extremely insulting. I am not lazy. I am very busy and am happy to pay someone who has better knowledge and information than me to arrange the holiday for me. Same for certain things in my professional worklife.

I would rather have the time to spend with my family than saving the money. There is absolutely no guarantee that booking the holiday directly myself would have meant that I received a refund quicker. It's always a balance between saving money and having time for other priorities. What frustrates me about this forum is that a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that different people have different priorities. 

Can't seem to get the hang of this new forum re Quotes

But I was quoting SevenofNine
I use a known tour operator out of sheer laziness (TUI, Hayes & Jarvis, Kuoni, & numerous others, whoever sells what I want). Fussy about where we stay, fussy about where we sit in an aircraft, like things organised, p"erhaps even a little regimented & simply can't be bothered to organise it myself.  I've no plans to stop doing that, but may refer to some of the holiday lists of companies who have been more proactive during this unprecedented 'event', but we'll see."

My style of booking holidays is not purely about saving money but also to BE IN CONTROL of what I want to see\do and to be ABLE TO CHANGE PLANS if necessary.
I do not see the logic in giving that control to a Third party who to be brutally honest has less experience and interest in doing so than me.

I do appreciate others have different priorities but look where that has got them.
Bleating about not getting refunds!

I do hope a lot of them learn a lesson here.

I also hope a lot of them get their money back-but I'm not holding my breathe on that one.

blindman

zagfles said

Sorry, completely OT, but did you ever do your trip report for your RTW epic, I was looking forwards to it! https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/75708744#Comment_75708744

Hi
No, not yet. 
I've been too busy planning other adventures!
After that one we went off to Africa on a -wait for it- TOUR!

24 nights   Cape Town to Jo'berg  via Namibia, Botwswana, Zimbabwe,
One of the few times I have looked at my DIY itnerary and realised it was better to actually book a tour as there was a lot of travelling and overnight stops in different countries, adventures on site and food preparation I 


Sadly we had to cut short our follow on DIY trip to Kruger due to a death in the family.
But as I was DIY I organised flights home easily and my insurance covered the extra cost.

So with regards to the RTW trip we did. 
As our travels have  been put on hold for maybe 12-18 months I should get around to writing the report.

However I am planning next years adventures in this down time as I would normally do.

SevenOfNine

blindman said:

ComicGeek said

I find that extremely insulting. I am not lazy. I am very busy and am happy to pay someone who has better knowledge and information than me to arrange the holiday for me. Same for certain things in my professional worklife.

I would rather have the time to spend with my family than saving the money. There is absolutely no guarantee that booking the holiday directly myself would have meant that I received a refund quicker. It's always a balance between saving money and having time for other priorities. What frustrates me about this forum is that a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that different people have different priorities. 

Can't seem to get the hang of this new forum re Quotes

But I was quoting SevenofNine
I use a known tour operator out of sheer laziness (TUI, Hayes & Jarvis, Kuoni, & numerous others, whoever sells what I want). Fussy about where we stay, fussy about where we sit in an aircraft, like things organised, p"erhaps even a little regimented & simply can't be bothered to organise it myself.  I've no plans to stop doing that, but may refer to some of the holiday lists of companies who have been more proactive during this unprecedented 'event', but we'll see."

My style of booking holidays is not purely about saving money but also to BE IN CONTROL of what I want to see\do and to be ABLE TO CHANGE PLANS if necessary.
I do not see the logic in giving that control to a Third party who to be brutally honest has less experience and interest in doing so than me.

I do appreciate others have different priorities but look where that has got them.
Bleating about not getting refunds!

I do hope a lot of them learn a lesson here.

I also hope a lot of them get their money back-but I'm not holding my breathe on that one.

What lesson? It hasn't been determined that we will not get our money back, it's more likely a question of 'when' &/or where from.  Personally we can afford to wait.

If I'm too lazy to go the the lengths zagfles does, it's so far out of what I'd consider 'fun' to do but he likes it, so good on him. Saves money as well so even better....for him, whereas me, I'm not bothered one bit by it & no plans to emulate him.  Personally we've got plenty of money & a whole lot more equity in our home, if you like to think we're being taught a lesson by this episode then you'll have to think again as far as I'm concerned. 

We have £4,400 invested in this holiday & a further £1200-£1400 on one in September (can't recall exact amount offhand), so about £6k tops.  Of course I'd like to get it back, but frankly I'm not actually losing sleep over it, in fact it's quite an interesting process to follow, no wonder zagfles is here even though no holiday dosh at risk himself.  This won't affect our standard of living nor make a massive dent in our finances so I'll carry right on booking packages the way I do, in a lazy manner, but I might be a bit more choosy about which operator I choose (& I might not).  ATOL, travel insurance (which by the way does cover us for cancellation due to "FCO essential travel" warning), Section 75 (that one might be tricky given that my contract was solely with TUI, not the end suppliers of the package).  It can just roll along with TUI for now it'll all come out in the wash eventually, & if it doesn't, well 'whatever'.

You should try not to let it bother you quite so much if people seem to have money to waste, there will always be many who have more than you, & even more who have more than me, personally I couldn't care less, you should try it some time & chill out over what seems to be giving you some strange satisfaction that we might be being 'taught a lesson'.  We learnt the hard way that there's more to life than money, which is why I'm not bothered about p! ssing it up the wall.

43722

Blindman;
"Bleating about not getting refunds"  Sounds quite wrong on the face of it. People entered into an agreement, exchanging a service for a sum of money. In most cases this transaction is based on legally-backed refunds. If the service does not materialise as promised, why do you say people are "bleating" about not getting a refund?

blindman

SevenOfNine said:

What lesson?
Do not give over control and a huge amount of money to a third party who is not concerned about your well being in the slightest and who is mostly likely overcharging you for a job you could do better your self.


It hasn't been determined that we will not get our money back, it's more likely a question of 'when' &/or where from. 

 Personally we can afford to wait.

 Personally we've got plenty of money & a whole lot more equity in our home, 

We have £4,400 invested in this holiday & a further £1200-£1400 on one in September (can't recall exact amount offhand), so about £6k tops.  Of course I'd like to get it back, but frankly I'm not actually losing sleep over it, in fact it's quite an interesting process to follow,

This won't affect our standard of living nor make a massive dent in our finances
 
it'll all come out in the wash eventually, & if it doesn't, well 'whatever'.

You should try not to let it bother you quite so much if people seem to have money to waste,

 which is why I'm not bothered about p! ssing it up the wall.

I get it-You have loads of dosh to burn-Strange that you're on a Money saving web-site though.

blindman

43722 said:

Blindman;
People entered into an agreement, exchanging a service for a sum of money. In most cases this transaction is based on legally-backed refunds. If the service does not materialise as promised, why do you say people are "bleating" about not getting a refund?

Because they are now learning the lesson about not giving up control and money to a third party who does not care, who are backed by Head Office (ABTA) who are happy to let them flout the law.
I believe there are a few Travel agents out there who are paying back monies owed.
Let hope everyone remembers who they are if they want to book future holidays and not DIY, as it is not for everyone.

gemmasummer

I had a trip booked to Venice through voyage privé.
Departing March 2nd, because of what was going on with coronavirus in Italy we had asked if we were able to get a voucher or a refund but because it was deemed “safe” to travel at that time voyage privé were very unhelpful and could apparently do nothing for us. 

I emailed back and forth with them about how it was saying only essential travel and they did not care and eventually tried to ignore me and the customer service was terrible. 

I also got the email saying if you want to cancel here is how, and after I had emailed so many times trying to cancel. That it what I did, they however took all our money as a cancellation fee. 

I am at least due a refund for the taxes of my flights and the extras I added onto this holiday. 

I haven’t received a refund from them which in the email should be about £130
As I’ve read above because I cancelled I doubt I’ll be able to get any money back, and because they did not close the boarders until the week after I feel I don’t have a leg to stand on either way. 

But as Voyage Prive have literally checked out I don’t know what else to do. 

Has anyone received any sort of refund from them at all??