Message from ABTA A disgrace.

zagfles

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

ComicGeek

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Sounds like my idea of hell, that would stress me out far too much to be enjoyable! I want to know as much info as possible in advance, I can't cope well with the spontaneity factor - it would be far more relaxing to just not have any holidays...

zagfles

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Sounds like my idea of hell, that would stress me out far too much to be enjoyable! I want to know as much info as possible in advance, I can't cope well with the spontaneity factor - it would be far more relaxing to just not have any holidays...

Hmm...compared to the stress of paying £14k up front and then not knowing whether your holiday will go ahead, and then finding out it won't and stressing over whether or not you'll get your money back, or whether you'll get vouchers that may prove useless...that's more like my idea of hell! As some people in this thread are experiencing right now!

SevenOfNine

zagfles said:

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Sounds like my idea of hell, that would stress me out far too much to be enjoyable! I want to know as much info as possible in advance, I can't cope well with the spontaneity factor - it would be far more relaxing to just not have any holidays...

Hmm...compared to the stress of paying £14k up front and then not knowing whether your holiday will go ahead, and then finding out it won't and stressing over whether or not you'll get your money back, or whether you'll get vouchers that may prove useless...that's more like my idea of hell! As some people in this thread are experiencing right now!

.......which of course leads me to ask, why are you on here (genuinely in the nicest possible way)?  Surely your easy cancel, not much paid up front holiday hasn't led stressful hell!  

happyandcontented

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Again, I take your point, but going abroad requires flights and those are mainly non-cancellable or changeable without a significant charge, and as we prefer to book flights as far out as possible, we would still incur costs there. 

We do often book hotels with flexible cancellation policies if they suit our needs, but we would not choose a hotel solely on that basis.  Chain hotels also have much more flexible policies such as you describe, but they are not our choice of accommodation beyond airport overnighters. 

zagfles

SevenOfNine said:

zagfles said:

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Sounds like my idea of hell, that would stress me out far too much to be enjoyable! I want to know as much info as possible in advance, I can't cope well with the spontaneity factor - it would be far more relaxing to just not have any holidays...

Hmm...compared to the stress of paying £14k up front and then not knowing whether your holiday will go ahead, and then finding out it won't and stressing over whether or not you'll get your money back, or whether you'll get vouchers that may prove useless...that's more like my idea of hell! As some people in this thread are experiencing right now!

.......which of course leads me to ask, why are you on here (genuinely in the nicest possible way)?  Surely your easy cancel, not much paid up front holiday hasn't led stressful hell!  

I've not got anything booked. I'm a regular on the travel board on MSE where I think this thread started. 

zagfles

happyandcontented said:

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Again, I take your point, but going abroad requires flights and those are mainly non-cancellable or changeable without a significant charge, and as we prefer to book flights as far out as possible, we would still incur costs there. 

We do often book hotels with flexible cancellation policies if they suit our needs, but we would not choose a hotel solely on that basis.  Chain hotels also have much more flexible policies such as you describe, but they are not our choice of accommodation beyond airport overnighters. 

Indeed - but short haul flights are generally cheap, so usually a small loss, long haul flights often come with some flexibility or even cancellable, for often not much more (if anything) over a non refundable/change fare. There will almost always be some upfront committment, the issue is the level of it. I'm not saying everyone is going to change their style of holiday/booking their holiday, just that I think some people will look more at how much they are prepared to commit up front.

ComicGeek

zagfles said:

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Sounds like my idea of hell, that would stress me out far too much to be enjoyable! I want to know as much info as possible in advance, I can't cope well with the spontaneity factor - it would be far more relaxing to just not have any holidays...

Hmm...compared to the stress of paying £14k up front and then not knowing whether your holiday will go ahead, and then finding out it won't and stressing over whether or not you'll get your money back, or whether you'll get vouchers that may prove useless...that's more like my idea of hell! As some people in this thread are experiencing right now!

Each to their own, we're all different. You have to appreciate that different people approach things in a different way - my wife suffers with severe anxiety so just wouldn't be able to do what you could do. Even though I'm not an anxious person myself, it still does reflect onto and affect me, and in some ways even though we balance each other out slightly it still ends up in the anxious zone.

I'm actually chasing refund/vouchers from Virgin Holidays for a very expensive family holiday now, significantly over £14k - should have been flying back from Florida all tanned and relaxed last week... Combination of 4 significant birthdays in our close family plus a significant wedding anniversary meant that I had 4 holidays booked this year, with 3 in this country. This is a very unique time - at no other point in my life have I been unable to take my planned holidays. Obviously I may need to rethink how this works in the future, but I'm not stressing about getting refunds etc - I've paid for the holidays upfront, I'm not having to pay off credit cards or other debts, I can afford it.

blindman

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Sounds like my idea of hell, that would stress me out far too much to be enjoyable! I want to know as much info as possible in advance, I can't cope well with the spontaneity factor - it would be far more relaxing to just not have any holidays...

Hmm...compared to the stress of paying £14k up front and then not knowing whether your holiday will go ahead, and then finding out it won't and stressing over whether or not you'll get your money back, or whether you'll get vouchers that may prove useless...that's more like my idea of hell! As some people in this thread are experiencing right now!

Each to their own, we're all different. You have to appreciate that different people approach things in a different way - my wife suffers with severe anxiety so just wouldn't be able to do what you could do. Even though I'm not an anxious person myself, it still does reflect onto and affect me, and in some ways even though we balance each other out slightly it still ends up in the anxious zone.

I'm actually chasing refund/vouchers from Virgin Holidays for a very expensive family holiday now, significantly over £14k - should have been flying back from Florida all tanned and relaxed last week... Combination of 4 significant birthdays in our close family plus a significant wedding anniversary meant that I had 4 holidays booked this year, with 3 in this country. This is a very unique time - at no other point in my life have I been unable to take my planned holidays. Obviously I may need to rethink how this works in the future, but I'm not stressing about getting refunds etc - I've paid for the holidays upfront, I'm not having to pay off credit cards or other debts, I can afford it.

I started reading all of the replies to Zagfles but got a little lost if I'm honest.
What I think (s)he was trying to say -with which I agree- is
A LOT of people STILL think that the only way to get what they want for a holiday -"Good seats on a plane, great hotels, best tours, etc is to give a SHED LOAD of money to a Travel agent and to let them sort it for them.
                  Some people are just PLAIN LAZY-so if they have more money that "Get up and go" then so be it.
                  Some people should not be let near the Internet-We're not all geniuses' But it would not hurt to try.

BIG problem with that is-Well -NOW you cannot get your money back!

YOU have given a HUGE amount of money to a third party who is NOT INTERESTED in your holiday but THEIR PROFIT.
For something you could have easily done yourselves either probably cheaper.

This has always been the case but now it has been thrust out into the open for all to see.

I do really hope that once this is over -Well, become the norm- that these people realise  that Travel agents should go the same way as the Dinosaurs.
BTW
I have planned my holidays independanlty for the last 40 years.
Cancellabel hotels, DIY tours, car hire and flights using Frequent Flyer miles where possible.

I was in Australia on March 5th, due to return via South Pacific 17th May.
Rearranged the return 30th March, all flights, accommodation cancelled at no cost.

Simples. 

ComicGeek

blindman said:

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

ComicGeek said:

zagfles said:

happyandcontented said:

I can see your point, but many accommodations get booked up well in advance and if you want to stay there you have to book ahead.
Like the poster above, I wouldn't be willing to arrive and just take what was available, I research exactly where I want to stay, in what type of room/suite and what amenities I require. I book in advance to ensure I get it.
Insurance is for the unforeseen and if it happens you deal with it, just as we are doing now. I would much rather do that and know I have what I want than go on spec and get what is left. Each to their own.

You can get the best of both worlds, eg book a cancellable hotel (default for many is cancellable up to the day of arrival), then if you see something better nearer the time, or even the same hotel offering a cheaper non cancellable rate, cancel and book that instead. Then you're guaranteed something you're happy with, but leaving the option open of getting something better/cheaper later, plus the ability to cancel completely without losing anything. At least on the hotel.

Not always practical if you go at peak times, but even if you're constrained to UK peak times (eg kids in school, working in a school etc), you can go somewhere where it's off peak locally. Eg we went to NZ in late July/August, where it is very off peak. Late August is off peak for a lot of Europe.

Sounds like my idea of hell, that would stress me out far too much to be enjoyable! I want to know as much info as possible in advance, I can't cope well with the spontaneity factor - it would be far more relaxing to just not have any holidays...

Hmm...compared to the stress of paying £14k up front and then not knowing whether your holiday will go ahead, and then finding out it won't and stressing over whether or not you'll get your money back, or whether you'll get vouchers that may prove useless...that's more like my idea of hell! As some people in this thread are experiencing right now!

Each to their own, we're all different. You have to appreciate that different people approach things in a different way - my wife suffers with severe anxiety so just wouldn't be able to do what you could do. Even though I'm not an anxious person myself, it still does reflect onto and affect me, and in some ways even though we balance each other out slightly it still ends up in the anxious zone.

I'm actually chasing refund/vouchers from Virgin Holidays for a very expensive family holiday now, significantly over £14k - should have been flying back from Florida all tanned and relaxed last week... Combination of 4 significant birthdays in our close family plus a significant wedding anniversary meant that I had 4 holidays booked this year, with 3 in this country. This is a very unique time - at no other point in my life have I been unable to take my planned holidays. Obviously I may need to rethink how this works in the future, but I'm not stressing about getting refunds etc - I've paid for the holidays upfront, I'm not having to pay off credit cards or other debts, I can afford it.

I started reading all of the replies to Zagfles but got a little lost if I'm honest.
What I think (s)he was trying to say -with which I agree- is
A LOT of people STILL think that the only way to get what they want for a holiday -"Good seats on a plane, great hotels, best tours, etc is to give a SHED LOAD of money to a Travel agent and to let them sort it for them.
                  Some people are just PLAIN LAZY-so if they have more money that "Get up and go" then so be it.
                  Some people should not be let near the Internet-We're not all geniuses' But it would not hurt to try.

BIG problem with that is-Well -now.....
YOU have given a HUGE amount of money to a third party who is NOT INTERESTED in your holiday but THEIR PROFIT.
For something you could have easily done yourselves either probably cheaper.
This has always been the case but now it has been thrust out into the open for all to see.

I do really hope that once this is over -Well, become the norm- that these people realise  that Travel agents should go the same way as the Dinosaurs.
BTW
I was in Australia on March 5th, due to return via South Pacific 17th May.
Rearranged the return 30th March, all flights, accommodation cancelled at no cost.

Simples. 

I find that extremely insulting. I am not lazy. I am very busy and am happy to pay someone who has better knowledge and information than me to arrange the holiday for me. Same for certain things in my professional worklife.

I would rather have the time to spend with my family than saving the money. There is absolutely no guarantee that booking the holiday directly myself would have meant that I received a refund quicker. It's always a balance between saving money and having time for other priorities. What frustrates me about this forum is that a lot of people refuse to acknowledge that different people have different priorities.