TUI refunds thread

Butts

BeltonRose said:

skadupuk said:

BeltonRose said:

My Tui refund was agreed on 17th March and confirmed by an email same day.  I was told the £money would be credited back to my credit card within 7 - 10 days.  Two points:
1. They have not paid the refund and are therefore in breach of their contract. 
2. They cannot renege on what was agreed on 17th March and retrospectively apply their new policy on refunds. 
I believe my specific circumstance is robust enough to make a Section 75 claim to my credit card provider.  

1. It's reasonable in the circumstances for there to be a delay in the refund time frames. 
2. They've already stated that an agreed refund prior to the change of terms will still be processed as a refund.

Unless you have evidence that TUI are refusing the refund rather than there being a delay on it, your credit card provider will not view it as a valid S75 and will decline.

Hear what you say, however the credit card company are jointly liable for the refund.  A section 75 claim is not a 'fall back' process that is just used when your merchant/retailer fails to act/pay up.  You can, quite legitimately, seek recompense from your merchant/retailer and your credit card company at the same time.... but of course cannot receive the £money from both.  The law as it stands quite clearly states that refunds should be paid within 14 days, for a cancelled holiday.  In my specific circumstance it has been 4 weeks since they agreed the refund, and therefore they are, even in the current climate, in breach of their contract. Whilst I have some sympathy with them, lets just turn this around for a moment. There has been discussion on this thread about whether someone should be required to pay their second deposit on their cancelled holiday.  To which a response has been that contractually Tui are within their rights to ask for the £money to be paid, and if not paid then ultimately seek resolution through court action.  Tui cannot have it both ways..... relying on contractual obligation when it is to their benefit, but seeking to waive their contractual obligation when they are required to refund £money.  Agreed we are in exceptional times, however, the law is clear.

I completely agree with you and I have been trying to highlight this "contractual hypocrisy" - it's like peeing in the wind.
Not only that but also unfair terms and conditions are invalid whether you have agreed to them or not.
People seem to take it as gospel that TUI and other firms will pursue people in these circumstances for deposit balances and other spurious charges despite them not being able to demonstrate  any  Court Cases where they have actually done so.

rothers

BeltonRose said:

My Tui refund was agreed on 17th March and confirmed by an email same day.  I was told the £money would be credited back to my credit card within 7 - 10 days.  Two points:
1. They have not paid the refund and are therefore in breach of their contract. 
2. They cannot renege on what was agreed on 17th March and retrospectively apply their new policy on refunds. 
I believe my specific circumstance is robust enough to make a Section 75 claim to my credit card provider.  

I’m in a similar position, refund agreed by email on 21st March (they told me four weeks) I’m going to give them a bit more time but I’d be interested to hear what your bank say. 

Life__Goes__On

Butts said:

Not only that but also unfair terms and conditions are invalid whether you have agreed to them or not.

That is such an important point and worth shouting from the rooftop.

 So many people even some offering advice don't always understand this.
 

Aylesbury_Duck

Butts saiad:

BeltonRose said:

skadupuk said:

BeltonRose said:

My Tui refund was agreed on 17th March and confirmed by an email same day.  I was told the £money would be credited back to my credit card within 7 - 10 days.  Two points:
1. They have not paid the refund and are therefore in breach of their contract. 
2. They cannot renege on what was agreed on 17th March and retrospectively apply their new policy on refunds. 
I believe my specific circumstance is robust enough to make a Section 75 claim to my credit card provider.  

1. It's reasonable in the circumstances for there to be a delay in the refund time frames. 
2. They've already stated that an agreed refund prior to the change of terms will still be processed as a refund.

Unless you have evidence that TUI are refusing the refund rather than there being a delay on it, your credit card provider will not view it as a valid S75 and will decline.

Hear what you say, however the credit card company are jointly liable for the refund.  A section 75 claim is not a 'fall back' process that is just used when your merchant/retailer fails to act/pay up.  You can, quite legitimately, seek recompense from your merchant/retailer and your credit card company at the same time.... but of course cannot receive the £money from both.  The law as it stands quite clearly states that refunds should be paid within 14 days, for a cancelled holiday.  In my specific circumstance it has been 4 weeks since they agreed the refund, and therefore they are, even in the current climate, in breach of their contract. Whilst I have some sympathy with them, lets just turn this around for a moment. There has been discussion on this thread about whether someone should be required to pay their second deposit on their cancelled holiday.  To which a response has been that contractually Tui are within their rights to ask for the £money to be paid, and if not paid then ultimately seek resolution through court action.  Tui cannot have it both ways..... relying on contractual obligation when it is to their benefit, but seeking to waive their contractual obligation when they are required to refund £money.  Agreed we are in exceptional times, however, the law is clear.

I completely agree with you and I have been trying to highlight this "contractual hypocrisy" - it's like peeing in the wind.
Not only that but also unfair terms and conditions are invalid whether you have agreed to them or not.
People seem to take it as gospel that TUI and other firms will pursue people in these circumstances for deposit balances and other spurious charges despite them not being able to demonstrate  any  Court Cases where they have actually done so.

You've been banging this particular drum for weeks.  It is contractual hypocrisy, I don't think anyone can demonstrate any cases and I doubt some companies would pursue it but I couldn't be sure that all would not, and neither could you.  Until you're prepared to underwrite the risks of the people you're encouraging to break their contract, you're just being bombastic.

It's very easy to be bullish with other people's money.

Aylesbury_Duck

Life__Goes__On said:

Butts said:

Not only that but also unfair terms and conditions are invalid whether you have agreed to them or not.

That is such an important point and worth shouting from the rooftop.

 So many people even some offering advice don't always understand this.
 

I think it's more subtle than that.  I think everyone understands that unfair terms are invalid.  The problem at hand is what practical steps people can take now to get their money now, the options for which have dwindled to pretty much nothing.  It's one of those situations where you can write legally accurate emails and letters many times over, but it doesn't seem to be having any effect.  Being right isn't getting people their money back.  The forum is testament to that.

Butts

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Butts saiad:

BeltonRose said:

skadupuk said:

BeltonRose said:

My Tui refund was agreed on 17th March and confirmed by an email same day.  I was told the £money would be credited back to my credit card within 7 - 10 days.  Two points:
1. They have not paid the refund and are therefore in breach of their contract. 
2. They cannot renege on what was agreed on 17th March and retrospectively apply their new policy on refunds. 
I believe my specific circumstance is robust enough to make a Section 75 claim to my credit card provider.  

1. It's reasonable in the circumstances for there to be a delay in the refund time frames. 
2. They've already stated that an agreed refund prior to the change of terms will still be processed as a refund.

Unless you have evidence that TUI are refusing the refund rather than there being a delay on it, your credit card provider will not view it as a valid S75 and will decline.

Hear what you say, however the credit card company are jointly liable for the refund.  A section 75 claim is not a 'fall back' process that is just used when your merchant/retailer fails to act/pay up.  You can, quite legitimately, seek recompense from your merchant/retailer and your credit card company at the same time.... but of course cannot receive the £money from both.  The law as it stands quite clearly states that refunds should be paid within 14 days, for a cancelled holiday.  In my specific circumstance it has been 4 weeks since they agreed the refund, and therefore they are, even in the current climate, in breach of their contract. Whilst I have some sympathy with them, lets just turn this around for a moment. There has been discussion on this thread about whether someone should be required to pay their second deposit on their cancelled holiday.  To which a response has been that contractually Tui are within their rights to ask for the £money to be paid, and if not paid then ultimately seek resolution through court action.  Tui cannot have it both ways..... relying on contractual obligation when it is to their benefit, but seeking to waive their contractual obligation when they are required to refund £money.  Agreed we are in exceptional times, however, the law is clear.

I completely agree with you and I have been trying to highlight this "contractual hypocrisy" - it's like peeing in the wind.
Not only that but also unfair terms and conditions are invalid whether you have agreed to them or not.
People seem to take it as gospel that TUI and other firms will pursue people in these circumstances for deposit balances and other spurious charges despite them not being able to demonstrate  any  Court Cases where they have actually done so.

You've been banging this particular drum for weeks.  It is contractual hypocrisy, I don't think anyone can demonstrate any cases and I doubt some companies would pursue it but I couldn't be sure that all would not, and neither could you.  Until you're prepared to underwrite the risks of the people you're encouraging to break their contract, you're just being bombastic.

It's very easy to be bullish with other people's money.

With the greatest of respect I have got an interest in possible financial exposure to the dilema of handing over the remaining balance in July for a holiday that is supposed to take place in August.

So far I have only paid £400 with £3700 due in July for a booking with Last Minute.com ( I know I should have booked direct !!). A casual look at their current performance on here , other sites and Trust Pilot does not exactly instill me with confidence in the way they are treating customers. Last Minute seem to be amongst the worst of a bad bunch.

It is only natural that I would look for legitimate avenues to extricate myself from this mess if it proves necessary. This is when I came across The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018. Termination Charges ( when a client voluntarily wants to cancel) have to be "Reasonable and Justifiable"

I looked at my Terms and Conditions with Last Minute and the alarm bells started ringing when I noticed The Hotel Element would have to be paid in full from if I voluntarily cancelled the day after I booked in December - ie 8 months out from the commencement of the vacation.

The same Hotel is available on Booking.com and others for less than their cancellation amount, with no upfront payment required and free cancellation up to 24 hours before arrival. If I as an ordinary customer am able to secure such a deal then Last Minute could surely secure a much more favourable deal.

In other words their termination fees are supposed to reflect the loss they incur by my cancelling my booking and a little bit for administration. It is my contention that their loss would probably be zero and they are trying to charge a grand rendering it an unfair term and  therefore unenforceable.

This is the reason I was trying to find out if Last Minute or an other operator had tried to enforce this and other dubious terms in a Court of Law. So far no one (including me) has been able to find an example. This must have happened countless times in normal times let alone the current pandemic.

So forgive me if I am being "bullish or bombasic" but I would be happy to be labelled such I if I can legally save throwing £3700 down the drain. I'm prepared to accept the £400 loss for the stupidity on my part for using a third party rather than booking direct.

Aylesbury_Duck

Butts said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Butts saiad:

BeltonRose said:

skadupuk said:

BeltonRose said:

My Tui refund was agreed on 17th March and confirmed by an email same day.  I was told the £money would be credited back to my credit card within 7 - 10 days.  Two points:
1. They have not paid the refund and are therefore in breach of their contract. 
2. They cannot renege on what was agreed on 17th March and retrospectively apply their new policy on refunds. 
I believe my specific circumstance is robust enough to make a Section 75 claim to my credit card provider.  

1. It's reasonable in the circumstances for there to be a delay in the refund time frames. 
2. They've already stated that an agreed refund prior to the change of terms will still be processed as a refund.

Unless you have evidence that TUI are refusing the refund rather than there being a delay on it, your credit card provider will not view it as a valid S75 and will decline.

Hear what you say, however the credit card company are jointly liable for the refund.  A section 75 claim is not a 'fall back' process that is just used when your merchant/retailer fails to act/pay up.  You can, quite legitimately, seek recompense from your merchant/retailer and your credit card company at the same time.... but of course cannot receive the £money from both.  The law as it stands quite clearly states that refunds should be paid within 14 days, for a cancelled holiday.  In my specific circumstance it has been 4 weeks since they agreed the refund, and therefore they are, even in the current climate, in breach of their contract. Whilst I have some sympathy with them, lets just turn this around for a moment. There has been discussion on this thread about whether someone should be required to pay their second deposit on their cancelled holiday.  To which a response has been that contractually Tui are within their rights to ask for the £money to be paid, and if not paid then ultimately seek resolution through court action.  Tui cannot have it both ways..... relying on contractual obligation when it is to their benefit, but seeking to waive their contractual obligation when they are required to refund £money.  Agreed we are in exceptional times, however, the law is clear.

I completely agree with you and I have been trying to highlight this "contractual hypocrisy" - it's like peeing in the wind.
Not only that but also unfair terms and conditions are invalid whether you have agreed to them or not.
People seem to take it as gospel that TUI and other firms will pursue people in these circumstances for deposit balances and other spurious charges despite them not being able to demonstrate  any  Court Cases where they have actually done so.

You've been banging this particular drum for weeks.  It is contractual hypocrisy, I don't think anyone can demonstrate any cases and I doubt some companies would pursue it but I couldn't be sure that all would not, and neither could you.  Until you're prepared to underwrite the risks of the people you're encouraging to break their contract, you're just being bombastic.

It's very easy to be bullish with other people's money.

With the greatest of respect I have got an interest in possible financial exposure to the dilema of handing over the remaining balance in July for a holiday that is supposed to take place in August.

So far I have only paid £400 with £3700 due in July for a booking with Last Minute.com ( I know I should have booked direct !!). A casual look at their current performance on here , other sites and Trust Pilot does not exactly instill me with confidence in the way they are treating customers. Last Minute seem to be amongst the worst of a bad bunch.

It is only natural that I would look for legitimate avenues to extricate myself from this mess if it proves necessary. This is when I came across The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018. Termination Charges ( when a client voluntarily wants to cancel) have to be "Reasonable and Justifiable"

I looked at my Terms and Conditions with Last Minute and the alarm bells started ringing when I noticed The Hotel Element would have to be paid in full from if I voluntarily cancelled the day after I booked in December - ie 8 months out from the commencement of the vacation.

The same Hotel is available on Booking.com and others for less than their cancellation amount, with no upfront payment required and free cancellation up to 24 hours before arrival. If I as an ordinary customer am able to secure such a deal then Last Minute could surely secure a much more favourable deal.

In other words their termination fees are supposed to reflect the loss they incur by my cancelling my booking and a little bit for administration. It is my contention that their loss would probably be zero and they are trying to charge a grand rendering it an unfair term and  therefore unenforceable.

This is the reason I was trying to find out if Last Minute or an other operator had tried to enforce this and other dubious terms in a Court of Law. So far no one (including me) has been able to find an example. This must have happened countless times in normal times let alone the current pandemic.

So forgive me if I am being "bullish or bombasic" but I would be happy to be labelled such I if I can legally save throwing £3700 down the drain. I'm prepared to accept the £400 loss for the stupidity on my part for using a third party rather than booking direct.

Great explanation, thanks.  I have no issue with you being bullish with your own situation.  I'd be exactly the same.

I was concerned that you were encouraging other people to break their contracts, which I consider to be risky.

Butts

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Butts said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Butts saiad:

BeltonRose said:

skadupuk said:

BeltonRose said:

My Tui refund was agreed on 17th March and confirmed by an email same day.  I was told the £money would be credited back to my credit card within 7 - 10 days.  Two points:
1. They have not paid the refund and are therefore in breach of their contract. 
2. They cannot renege on what was agreed on 17th March and retrospectively apply their new policy on refunds. 
I believe my specific circumstance is robust enough to make a Section 75 claim to my credit card provider.  

1. It's reasonable in the circumstances for there to be a delay in the refund time frames. 
2. They've already stated that an agreed refund prior to the change of terms will still be processed as a refund.

Unless you have evidence that TUI are refusing the refund rather than there being a delay on it, your credit card provider will not view it as a valid S75 and will decline.

Hear what you say, however the credit card company are jointly liable for the refund.  A section 75 claim is not a 'fall back' process that is just used when your merchant/retailer fails to act/pay up.  You can, quite legitimately, seek recompense from your merchant/retailer and your credit card company at the same time.... but of course cannot receive the £money from both.  The law as it stands quite clearly states that refunds should be paid within 14 days, for a cancelled holiday.  In my specific circumstance it has been 4 weeks since they agreed the refund, and therefore they are, even in the current climate, in breach of their contract. Whilst I have some sympathy with them, lets just turn this around for a moment. There has been discussion on this thread about whether someone should be required to pay their second deposit on their cancelled holiday.  To which a response has been that contractually Tui are within their rights to ask for the £money to be paid, and if not paid then ultimately seek resolution through court action.  Tui cannot have it both ways..... relying on contractual obligation when it is to their benefit, but seeking to waive their contractual obligation when they are required to refund £money.  Agreed we are in exceptional times, however, the law is clear.

I completely agree with you and I have been trying to highlight this "contractual hypocrisy" - it's like peeing in the wind.
Not only that but also unfair terms and conditions are invalid whether you have agreed to them or not.
People seem to take it as gospel that TUI and other firms will pursue people in these circumstances for deposit balances and other spurious charges despite them not being able to demonstrate  any  Court Cases where they have actually done so.

You've been banging this particular drum for weeks.  It is contractual hypocrisy, I don't think anyone can demonstrate any cases and I doubt some companies would pursue it but I couldn't be sure that all would not, and neither could you.  Until you're prepared to underwrite the risks of the people you're encouraging to break their contract, you're just being bombastic.

It's very easy to be bullish with other people's money.

With the greatest of respect I have got an interest in possible financial exposure to the dilema of handing over the remaining balance in July for a holiday that is supposed to take place in August.

So far I have only paid £400 with £3700 due in July for a booking with Last Minute.com ( I know I should have booked direct !!). A casual look at their current performance on here , other sites and Trust Pilot does not exactly instill me with confidence in the way they are treating customers. Last Minute seem to be amongst the worst of a bad bunch.

It is only natural that I would look for legitimate avenues to extricate myself from this mess if it proves necessary. This is when I came across The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018. Termination Charges ( when a client voluntarily wants to cancel) have to be "Reasonable and Justifiable"

I looked at my Terms and Conditions with Last Minute and the alarm bells started ringing when I noticed The Hotel Element would have to be paid in full from if I voluntarily cancelled the day after I booked in December - ie 8 months out from the commencement of the vacation.

The same Hotel is available on Booking.com and others for less than their cancellation amount, with no upfront payment required and free cancellation up to 24 hours before arrival. If I as an ordinary customer am able to secure such a deal then Last Minute could surely secure a much more favourable deal.

In other words their termination fees are supposed to reflect the loss they incur by my cancelling my booking and a little bit for administration. It is my contention that their loss would probably be zero and they are trying to charge a grand rendering it an unfair term and  therefore unenforceable.

This is the reason I was trying to find out if Last Minute or an other operator had tried to enforce this and other dubious terms in a Court of Law. So far no one (including me) has been able to find an example. This must have happened countless times in normal times let alone the current pandemic.

So forgive me if I am being "bullish or bombasic" but I would be happy to be labelled such I if I can legally save throwing £3700 down the drain. I'm prepared to accept the £400 loss for the stupidity on my part for using a third party rather than booking direct.

Great explanation, thanks.  I have no issue with you being bullish with your own situation.  I'd be exactly the same.

I was concerned that you were encouraging other people to break their contracts, which I consider to be risky.

If my Booking was with BA , TUI or any other reputable Company I would not be concerned as much.
It seems the perils of using third parties has come to the fore in this current crisis - When things are going fine so are they, but hit a problem and you are dangerously exposed to their lack of support and systems.

I am looking for a legal avenue where people in my circumstances with only a modest deposit at stake can cede this and save throwing good money after bad.

If last minute went belly up it would make my day !!!

skadupuk

BeltonRose said:

skadupuk said:

BeltonRose said:

My Tui refund was agreed on 17th March and confirmed by an email same day.  I was told the £money would be credited back to my credit card within 7 - 10 days.  Two points:
1. They have not paid the refund and are therefore in breach of their contract. 
2. They cannot renege on what was agreed on 17th March and retrospectively apply their new policy on refunds. 
I believe my specific circumstance is robust enough to make a Section 75 claim to my credit card provider.  

1. It's reasonable in the circumstances for there to be a delay in the refund time frames. 
2. They've already stated that an agreed refund prior to the change of terms will still be processed as a refund.

Unless you have evidence that TUI are refusing the refund rather than there being a delay on it, your credit card provider will not view it as a valid S75 and will decline.

Hear what you say, however the credit card company are jointly liable for the refund.  A section 75 claim is not a 'fall back' process that is just used when your merchant/retailer fails to act/pay up.  You can, quite legitimately, seek recompense from your merchant/retailer and your credit card company at the same time.... but of course cannot receive the £money from both.  The law as it stands quite clearly states that refunds should be paid within 14 days, for a cancelled holiday.  In my specific circumstance it has been 4 weeks since they agreed the refund, and therefore they are, even in the current climate, in breach of their contract. Whilst I have some sympathy with them, lets just turn this around for a moment. There has been discussion on this thread about whether someone should be required to pay their second deposit on their cancelled holiday.  To which a response has been that contractually Tui are within their rights to ask for the £money to be paid, and if not paid then ultimately seek resolution through court action.  Tui cannot have it both ways..... relying on contractual obligation when it is to their benefit, but seeking to waive their contractual obligation when they are required to refund £money.  Agreed we are in exceptional times, however, the law is clear.

As someone who has also "invested" their hard earned monies in TUI holidays, like you I am very keen to get my money back (mine aren't cancelled yet, but inevitably will be).

I just think you are on a beating to nowhere, many people have tried the S75 route already, and none gave had any success (even where people have been given a voucher instead of a refund). Rightly or wrongly, the banks want to see how things play out, so won't commit (especially of it sets a precedence).

All avenues of recourse such as courts, ombudsmen etc. are going to be so delayed/backed up by the time things start moving again that you'll likely have had your money back and all your efforts will have been for nothing.

Concerned75

Ive copied these FAQs from the TUI app and am I reading this wrong, but there is a clear air of suspicion from them, not wanting to give a refund or hoping for a reason not to. So they say you'll receive a refund credit within 4 weeks of  your holiday was before 16th April, if not you'll have to wait a month after your holiday date and possibly beyond to get through to them???

.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR ME?

• You’ll receive a refund credit for the full value of your holiday, and we’ll give you a separate booking incentive up to 20%. We understand that you may not be ready to book again just yet, so the refund credit gives you the flexibility to book your travel in the future. Plus, if your original booking was for a package holiday, you’ll get a separate booking incentive up to 20%. Your refund credit will automatically be emailed to you within four weeks of your departure date.

WHEN WILL I RECEIVE MY REFUND CREDIT?

Your refund credit will be emailed to you within four weeks of your original departure date. If you were due to travel before 16 April your refund credit will be automatically emailed to you by 1 May 2020, and if you were due to travel after 16 April you’ll receive it four weeks from your original departure date.