Help Please... NCP PCN BW Legal

Mrplay123456

nosferatu1001 said:

I still have no idea what you failed to do on the day
"Machine said £3.50 which I paid," - so how come you underpaid?
"ANPR pay and display" v  "I paid on exit and not on arrival" - so how can you possibly pay and display?

Be clearer. 

It was up to the motorist to select the amount and the £3.50 was the min amount which I paid... I will post the POPLA decsion. might make it clear....

Mrplay123456

Decision

Unsuccessful

Assessor Name

Adele Brophy

Assessor summary of operator case

The operator’s case is that a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) was issued due to parked longer than the time paid for.

Assessor summary of your case

The appellant’s case is that they parked their vehicle where they normally do. The appellant has advised that they went for lunch and did some shopping with their wife and on returning to the car park they entered their vehicle registration number and the machine requested the amount of £3.50. The appellant has advised that the machine is automated and tells the user the amount to pay. The appellant has advised that the car park used to issue a ticket that was entered into the machine, and that they would not know what time they arrived or left the car park. The appellant has advised that the system is a fault if they have not paid enough.

Assessor supporting rational for decision

The appellant has appealed the PCN as the driver of the vehicle therefore my report will focus on the driver’s liability for the PCN. The terms and conditions of the site are, “A Parking Charge Notice (PCN) may be issued for failure to comply with the Terms and Conditions (which can be found in and around this car park). This includes the following breaches: Failure to pay all the charges due for your parking. PCN charges paid within 14 days (early discount) £60 PCN charges paid after 14 days £100”. The operator issued a PCN due to parked for longer than the time paid for. Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras monitor the car park in question. The operator has provided photographic evidence of the appellant’s vehicle entering the site at 12:36 and exiting the site at 14:16. The images captured by the ANPR cameras confirm the appellant’s vehicle was on site for one hour 40 minutes. The appellant’s case is that they parked their vehicle where they normally do. The appellant has advised that they went for lunch and did some shopping with their wife and on returning to the car park they entered their vehicle registration number and the machine requested the amount of £3.50. The appellant has advised that the machine is automated and tells the user the amount to pay. The appellant has advised that the car park used to issue a ticket that was entered into the machine, and that they would not know what time they arrived or left the car park. The appellant has advised that the system is a fault if they have not paid enough. The operator has provided evidence of a system generated report from this I can see the appellants vehicle was registered against a payment for one hours parking on the date of the parking event. I acknowledge the appellant’s comments that the machine may have advised them to pay an amount, however when parking on private land, it is the responsibility of all motorists to be aware of how long their vehicle has remained at the site and to make the appropriate payment for parking. Operators are not obligated to calculate the length of stay for motorists or to assure each motorist has purchased sufficient parking time before leaving the site. Based on the evidence provided I am satisfied that it is clear that a payment of £5.50 was required to cover the appellant’s time on the site. The ticket machines do not tend to be linked to the ANPR cameras and will often show the lowest tariff available when a vehicle registration number is entered. It is the motorist’s responsibility, to ensure that they select the correct tariff, which will cover them for the duration they have been on the site. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that when they enter a car park, they have understood the terms and conditions of parking. By remaining parked on site, the appellant accepted the terms and conditions. On this occasion, by not making a payment to cover the duration of stay, the appellant has failed to follow the terms and conditions of the signage at the site and as such, I conclude that the operator issued the PCN correctly.

Le_Kirk

What a load of bananas!  If a PPC wants to "control" a car park, the responsibility lies with them to ask for the correct amount.  There are some car parks with ANPR where the cameras are aligned to the payment terminal and where it is not possible to drive out if the correct amount is not paid as the barrier fails to rise.  What would the POPLA assessor suggest one does in that instance - guess how much you have to pay, drive up to the barrier and see if it lifts or not and then reverse back against the flow of traffic to pay a bit more.

nosferatu1001

That still doesnt help! How can it be pay AND DISPLAY, meanin gyou 
pay
first
When you have to pay the amount the machine says, whic hcan only be *after* you have finished parking?
OK, read that horrible screed, you could have summarised it a lot easier than they did!
So
You have to guess how long you parked - the machine just starts at the lowest amount? How clear is that? We need photos of the instructions. Need. Not optional. 

Mrplay123456

nosferatu1001 said:

That still doesnt help! How can it be pay AND DISPLAY, meanin gyou 
pay
first
When you have to pay the amount the machine says, whic hcan only be *after* you have finished parking?
OK, read that horrible screed, you could have summarised it a lot easier than they did!
So
You have to guess how long you parked - the machine just starts at the lowest amount? How clear is that? We need photos of the instructions. Need. Not optional. 

I will hopefully be going to Manchester at the weekend, so I will take a few pictures myself.  I have requested the SAR info and pictures, hopefully they will arrive before court...
You are supposed to pay for the amount of your stay your are intending when you arrive, by selecting the correct tarrif.. Backed up with ANPR if you fail to pay the correct amount....

Mrplay123456

Le_Kirk said:

What a load of bananas!  If a PPC wants to "control" a car park, the responsibility lies with them to ask for the correct amount.  There are some car parks with ANPR where the cameras are aligned to the payment terminal and where it is not possible to drive out if the correct amount is not paid as the barrier fails to rise.  What would the POPLA assessor suggest one does in that instance - guess how much you have to pay, drive up to the barrier and see if it lifts or not and then reverse back against the flow of traffic to pay a bit more.

They have not stated that the car park was pay on entry on the POPLA report, neither did NCP, I suppose if you pay the correct amount before leaving the site, then nothing will be done.
My mistake and confusion, to be honest I can not remember everything about the carpark, so will visit again to take pics, (with my F*** YOU plates on LOL)

Mrplay123456

Thanks everyone for your comments, I need to start outlining the defence, any help with that would be magic....

Mrplay123456

Hi All,
Just sorting out my defence before posting it for comments, plenty of time yet...
I emailed Manchester City centre team the other day, long shot I know.
Well Here is my reply from them today....

"NCP Car park located at China Town, Faulkner St, Manchester M1 4EE.  

I've looked at the planning history for the above site and can't find any planning permission for ANPR Cameras and signage and I would be grateful if you could send me details of the location of these items so that we can investigate"

Thoughts please on how I use this information
Many thanks in advance

Mrplay123456

Defence needs to be done today, any pointers? Sorry to be last min... Just looking at the Abuse of Process template

Umkomaas

Read this - template defence available to you, use it. 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76880595#Comment_76880595

Followed by this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6107909/britannia-parking-v-crosby-southampton-judgment-attach-to-defences-or-witness-statements#latest