Parking in my own parking bay!! - appeal DENIED

The_Deep

and the latter document has George Wimpey as the land owner rather than me.

I would take that up with the conveyer.

Fruitcake

ssm90 wrote: »

I have come across that site and the material on it earlier today actually, it was helpful to get a better understanding. I can also e-mail the MP again with the new legislations you have linked me too.

With regards to the lease, the only thing I have (other than the usual fixtures and fittings documents etc.) are the actual contract that was signed and the HM Land Registry document. Neither document has any mention of car parking and the latter document has George Wimpey as the land owner rather than me.

So I am not sure that the fact that the parking isn't mentioned is a good or bad thing for me.

What isn't in the lease/AST is just as important.

If there is no mention of parking, permits, parking charges, court, paying a third party scammer, then there is no contractual requirement to do so, hence my question why you would need or want to display a permit, let alone pay for one. That is just bonkers.

Fruitcake

ssm90 wrote: »

Yes, in hindsight I realise that. I didn't really know much about private parking companies when I purchased the permit and assumed it was standard practice.

So my best course of action now is to keep at it with the MA- they haven't yet responded to my subtle e-mail about parking from last week so I'm not sure how long they will take. Is there a legal requirement for them to get back to by a certain point? I have 4 days to respond to the IAS.

Failing the above, the only thing left to do is fight this in court?

I'll definitely chase up on the Landlord and Tenants Act too!

Landlord and tenant problems our outwith the experience of most members of a parking forum.

An IPC member PCN gives you a greater than 80% chance of you losing an IAS appeal. Now you have come this far you could attack each point of your appeal/their evidence in case you need to show it later to a judge, but don't expect to win.

ssm90

The_Deep wrote: »

and the latter document has George Wimpey as the land owner rather than me.

I would take that up with the conveyer.

I have just obtained the Title Plan and the Title Register from the HM Land Registry website. Turns out the register I was looking at previously was the Freehold register belonging to George Wimpey. However, I now have the Leasehold register and Plan.

Once again, there is no mention of parking on the Leasehold Register.
HOWEVER, on the Leasehold plan it clearly shows that I have a paring bay. I have attached a copy https://ibb.co/sVN4CN4, I don't believe the image gives away anything personal - please let me know if otherwise.

Am I able to use this to shut it down?

Fruitcake

ssm90 wrote: »

I have just obtained the Title Plan and the Title Register from the HM Land Registry website. Turns out the register I was looking at previously was the Freehold register belonging to George Wimpey. However, I now have the Leasehold register and Plan.

Once again, there is no mention of parking on the Leasehold Register.
HOWEVER, on the Leasehold plan it clearly shows that I have a paring bay. I have attached a copy https://ibb.co/sVN4CN4, I don't believe the image gives away anything personal - please let me know if otherwise.

Am I able to use this to shut it down?

You would need the flat ownership document or whatever it is that states a parking space is included with/leased to the flat owner to send to the IAS if you want to go that route, and your complaints to the MA and estate agents.

You will also need it for court if it goes that far. Court is the only place this will get it shut down if the MA don't.

ssm90

Fruitcake wrote: »

You would need the flat ownership document or whatever it is that states a parking space is included with/leased to the flat owner to send to the IAS if you want to go that route, and your complaints to the MA and estate agents.

You will also need it for court if it goes that far. Court is the only place this will get it shut down if the MA don't.

Thank you, I will look into that further. The contract doesn't specifically mention a car park but I do have another document that mentions it so I will lean on that.

As a side note, I have a query with regards to the legality of compliance of requests made to the parking company by myself. For example, I have read on many sites that you are able to request the breakdown of the costs of the penalty if it seems high and that the company are only able to charge potential losses incurred, but they have outright refused to provide this breakdown to me.

Is there a specific law that states that they must provide this? I have been trying to google this but can't seem to find anything.

Fruitcake

ssm90 wrote: »

Thank you, I will look into that further. The contract doesn't specifically mention a car park but I do have another document that mentions it so I will lean on that.

As a side note, I have a query with regards to the legality of compliance of requests made to the parking company by myself. For example, I have read on many sites that you are able to request the breakdown of the costs of the penalty if it seems high and that the company are only able to charge potential losses incurred, but they have outright refused to provide this breakdown to me.

Is there a specific law that states that they must provide this? I have been trying to google this but can't seem to find anything.

It is not a penalty.

You are entitled to see your own personal data. You can ask about non personal data but it would be up to a judge to enforce that request.

As for only challenging "charging potential losses", that got thrown out in 2015 when Mr Beavis lost to Parking Lie at the Supreme Court.

Redx

As above , I doubt it , you can only request your own data with a SAR using GDPR

The time to argue this out is in court and as mentioned above this is about land ownership and leases as you have found out , a very murky area

Perhaps this should have been clarified when the flat was bought ?

This could end up in a legal dispute regarding the demised parking space , leases and ownership , so not within the remit of this forum

If it gets to civil court , you would see their evidence a few weeks before the hearing , same as everyone else

These own or demised space issues have been a complicated topic throughout my seven years of coming here

And it's a parking charge notice or PCN , an invoice , not a penalty nor a fine either

These legal words have meaning

NeilCr

Can we please be aware of the difference between a management company and managing agent

http://www.bacheandhill.co.uk/managing-agent-v-management-company/

This mixing up happens quite a bit on residential parking issues and it is quite important when trying to understand the problem to have clarity on terminology. People are definite here, for example, on not using the word fine.

OP

You say that George Wimpey were the freeholder. I assume (?) that this means they are no longer. It is possible/quite likely that they will have sold/passed on the freehold of the estate as a whole to a freehold company or a Residents Management Company (RMC)

Whichever of the above - GW, RMC, another body - owns the freehold of the estate will have appointed the managing agent to do much of the day to day management. They "should" be able to put pressure on the managing agent to cancel the ticket. Have you any sense of residents having a say in the management of the estate?

ETA

In reality it is an owners management company. Residents who are tenants will have no say.

The_Deep

Have you seen this?

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/