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Can I be forced to have a smart meter?

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Comments

  • TimeLord1
    TimeLord1 Posts: 1,126 Forumite
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    edited Today at 10:24AM
    QrizB said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    @t0rt0ise
    .ue
    • Suppliers are receiving an increasing number of requests from consumers to have Smart 
    That particular set of meeting minutes is illuminating. Thank you for digging them out.
    It  appears to confirm that, as of February 2024, there was no entitlement to have a smart meter installed in "dumb mode," and the advice from CAB to the contrary was incorrect, with CAB accepting that it was incorrect but not wanting to acknowledge that smart meters were de facto mandatory.
    The committee also noted that Ombudsman decisions that instructed suppliers to install dumb mode meters were contrary to Ofgem policy.
    The committee were asking Ofgem to change their policy. Do we know the outcome from their request?
    But they still today have that exact information available informing people that they can for better word, request it switched off. I posted a screenshot earlier.

    Edit

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 21,233 Forumite
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    edited Today at 10:43AM
    TimeLord1 said:
    QrizB said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    @t0rt0ise
    .ue
    • Suppliers are receiving an increasing number of requests from consumers to have Smart 
    That particular set of meeting minutes is illuminating. Thank you for digging them out.
    It  appears to confirm that, as of February 2024, there was no entitlement to have a smart meter installed in "dumb mode," and the advice from CAB to the contrary was incorrect, with CAB accepting that it was incorrect but not wanting to acknowledge that smart meters were de facto mandatory.
    The committee also noted that Ombudsman decisions that instructed suppliers to install dumb mode meters were contrary to Ofgem policy.
    The committee were asking Ofgem to change their policy. Do we know the outcome from their request?
    But they still today have that exact information available informing people that they can for better word, request it switched off.
    And, presumably, it's still wrong?
    Unless there's something to say that Ofgem have changed their policy?
    Edit to add:
    The CAB wording from that link looks to have been very carefully chosen.
    You can ask your supplier to install your smart meter with the extra functionality switched off. This means it’ll work in the same way as your current meter, and won’t send any information to your supplier. Contact your supplier to check if they can do this.
    "You can ask" but there's nothing to suggest that your preference needs to be respected.
    "Contact your supplier to check if they can do this" acknowledges that, in practice, suppliers might be unable to do so.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Intelligent Go elec & Tracker gas / Vodafone BB / iD mobile. Ripple Kirk Hill Coop member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 35 MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs, Best kettle!
  • t0rt0ise
    t0rt0ise Posts: 4,574 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    TimeLord1 said:
    @t0rt0ise
    .ue
    • Suppliers are receiving an increasing number of requests from Consumers to have Smart 
    It would be nice to see something a bit more recent. The below is interesting, found in the FAQs.

    "Smart metering will bring significant benefits to consumers and the wider energy system. Government expects energy suppliers to have processes in place to respond to concerns about smart metering, including providing information that may reassure consumers. Once installed, energy suppliers are required under their licence to take all reasonable steps to maintain the smart metering system, including the HAN and WAN. Ofgem is responsible for monitoring and enforcing compliance with these licence conditions."
  • MattMattMattUK
    MattMattMattUK Posts: 12,176 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fifth Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited Today at 10:40AM
    TimeLord1 said:
    MattMattMattUK said:
    Dumb mode is the brain mode for those who believe conspiracy theories and try to block having a smart meter installed, nothing more.
    If you see the last link I posted, they clearly use it as a defunct meter not transmitting data
    (dumb mode)  But there the mention Citizen Advice is still mentioned today as having information on its page that you can ask for it's smart mode to be switched off. I don't think they like people being able to see it or believe they have an option.  Below is that suggestion. 
    There is no "they", people often mean "dumb mode" they think that they can have their smart meter made dumb and not communicate, they cannot. The Citizen's Advice website telling people that they can refuse a smart meter is not accurate, they have been pulled up on it multiple times but have not updated the information. That information is factually and legally inaccurate. 
    TimeLord1 said:
    Can I also add, I currently have gas, electric, and water smart meters and I'm not opposed to it, just my opinion on them. Even though I think it shouldn't be forced on anyone causing them stress and worry.
    Smart meters should be compulsory, not optional. Anyone who finds the concept of them stressful or worrying needs to speak to their GP.
    TimeLord1 said:
    QrizB said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    @t0rt0ise
    .ue
    • Suppliers are receiving an increasing number of requests from consumers to have Smart 
    That particular set of meeting minutes is illuminating. Thank you for digging them out.
    It  appears to confirm that, as of February 2024, there was no entitlement to have a smart meter installed in "dumb mode," and the advice from CAB to the contrary was incorrect, with CAB accepting that it was incorrect but not wanting to acknowledge that smart meters were de facto mandatory.
    The committee also noted that Ombudsman decisions that instructed suppliers to install dumb mode meters were contrary to Ofgem policy.
    The committee were asking Ofgem to change their policy. Do we know the outcome from their request?
    But they still today have that exact information available informing people that they can for better word, request it switched off. I posted a screenshot earlier.

    Edit

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/
    They do, it is still wrong, it is still not legally correct.
  • TimeLord1
    TimeLord1 Posts: 1,126 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Savvy Shopper! Rampant Recycler
    I'm currently keeping an eye on several bits I have messaged Citizens Advice as per their guidance and if they're relevant or should be omitted.

    Most of the new 2026 updates seem to be about consumer faster payments and standards being completed by deadlines and cyber attacks. 
  • TimeLord1
    TimeLord1 Posts: 1,126 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Savvy Shopper! Rampant Recycler
    MattMattMattUK said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    MattMattMattUK said:
    Dumb mode is the brain mode for those who believe conspiracy theories and try to block having a smart meter installed, nothing more.
    If you see the last link I posted, they clearly use it as a defunct meter not transmitting data
    (dumb mode)  But there the mention Citizen Advice is still mentioned today as having information on its page that you can ask for it's smart mode to be switched off. I don't think they like people being able to see it or believe they have an option.  Below is that suggestion. 
    There is no "they", people often mean "dumb mode" they think that they can have their smart meter made dumb and not communicate, they cannot. The Citizen's Advice website telling people that they can refuse a smart meter is not accurate, they have been pulled up on it multiple times but have not updated the information. That information is factually and legally inaccurate. 
    TimeLord1 said:
    Can I also add, I currently have gas, electric, and water smart meters and I'm not opposed to it, just my opinion on them. Even though I think it shouldn't be forced on anyone causing them stress and worry.
    Smart meters should be compulsory, not optional. Anyone who finds the concept of them stressful or worrying needs to speak to their GP.
    TimeLord1 said:
    QrizB said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    @t0rt0ise
    .ue
    • Suppliers are receiving an increasing number of requests from consumers to have Smart 
    That particular set of meeting minutes is illuminating. Thank you for digging them out.
    It  appears to confirm that, as of February 2024, there was no entitlement to have a smart meter installed in "dumb mode," and the advice from CAB to the contrary was incorrect, with CAB accepting that it was incorrect but not wanting to acknowledge that smart meters were de facto mandatory.
    The committee also noted that Ombudsman decisions that instructed suppliers to install dumb mode meters were contrary to Ofgem policy.
    The committee were asking Ofgem to change their policy. Do we know the outcome from their request?
    But they still today have that exact information available informing people that they can for better word, request it switched off. I posted a screenshot earlier.

    Edit

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/
    They do, it is still wrong, it is still not legally correct.
    I think most people today seem not care what goes on until it involves time and money. 😁

     Come on see a GP today this is like finding a unicorn in a field. 
  • TimeLord1
    TimeLord1 Posts: 1,126 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Savvy Shopper! Rampant Recycler
    t0rt0ise said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    @t0rt0ise
    .ue
    • Suppliers are receiving an increasing number of requests from Consumers to have Smart 
    It would be nice to see something a bit more recent. The below is interesting, found in the FAQs.

    "Smart metering will bring significant benefits to consumers and the wider energy system. Government expects energy suppliers to have processes in place to respond to concerns about smart metering, including providing information that may reassure consumers. Once installed, energy suppliers are required under their licence to take all reasonable steps to maintain the smart metering system, including the HAN and WAN. Ofgem is responsible for monitoring and enforcing compliance with these licence conditions."
    These committee meetings once published, will be out of date but based on future legislation and standards to become legal requirements.
  • TimeLord1
    TimeLord1 Posts: 1,126 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Savvy Shopper! Rampant Recycler
    QrizB said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    QrizB said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    @t0rt0ise
    .ue
    • Suppliers are receiving an increasing number of requests from consumers to have Smart 
    That particular set of meeting minutes is illuminating. Thank you for digging them out.
    It  appears to confirm that, as of February 2024, there was no entitlement to have a smart meter installed in "dumb mode," and the advice from CAB to the contrary was incorrect, with CAB accepting that it was incorrect but not wanting to acknowledge that smart meters were de facto mandatory.
    The committee also noted that Ombudsman decisions that instructed suppliers to install dumb mode meters were contrary to Ofgem policy.
    The committee were asking Ofgem to change their policy. Do we know the outcome from their request?
    But they still today have that exact information available informing people that they can for better word, request it switched off.
    And, presumably, it's still wrong?
    Unless there's something to say that Ofgem have changed their policy?
    Edit to add:
    The CAB wording from that link looks to have been very carefully chosen.
    You can ask your supplier to install your smart meter with the extra functionality switched off. This means it’ll work in the same way as your current meter, and won’t send any information to your supplier. Contact your supplier to check if they can do this.
    "You can ask" but there's nothing to suggest that your preference needs to be respected.
    "Contact your supplier to check if they can do this" acknowledges that, in practice, suppliers might be unable to do so.
    True your supplier will probably shun the Idea as not allowed or they won't have any training on if it's an option. Most are just reading  off a monitor. 
  • TimeLord1
    TimeLord1 Posts: 1,126 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Savvy Shopper! Rampant Recycler
    MattMattMattUK said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    MattMattMattUK said:
    Dumb mode is the brain mode for those who believe conspiracy theories and try to block having a smart meter installed, nothing more.
    If you see the last link I posted, they clearly use it as a defunct meter not transmitting data
    (dumb mode)  But there the mention Citizen Advice is still mentioned today as having information on its page that you can ask for it's smart mode to be switched off. I don't think they like people being able to see it or believe they have an option.  Below is that suggestion. 
    There is no "they", people often mean "dumb mode" they think that they can have their smart meter made dumb and not communicate, they cannot. The Citizen's Advice website telling people that they can refuse a smart meter is not accurate, they have been pulled up on it multiple times but have not updated the information. That information is factually and legally inaccurate. 
    TimeLord1 said:
    Can I also add, I currently have gas, electric, and water smart meters and I'm not opposed to it, just my opinion on them. Even though I think it shouldn't be forced on anyone causing them stress and worry.
    Smart meters should be compulsory, not optional. Anyone who finds the concept of them stressful or worrying needs to speak to their GP.
    TimeLord1 said:
    QrizB said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    @t0rt0ise
    .ue
    • Suppliers are receiving an increasing number of requests from consumers to have Smart 
    That particular set of meeting minutes is illuminating. Thank you for digging them out.
    It  appears to confirm that, as of February 2024, there was no entitlement to have a smart meter installed in "dumb mode," and the advice from CAB to the contrary was incorrect, with CAB accepting that it was incorrect but not wanting to acknowledge that smart meters were de facto mandatory.
    The committee also noted that Ombudsman decisions that instructed suppliers to install dumb mode meters were contrary to Ofgem policy.
    The committee were asking Ofgem to change their policy. Do we know the outcome from their request?
    But they still today have that exact information available informing people that they can for better word, request it switched off. I posted a screenshot earlier.

    Edit

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/
    They do, it is still wrong, it is still not legally correct.


    Some examples, of  I was looking up.
  • QrizB
    QrizB Posts: 21,233 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited Today at 11:30AM
    TimeLord1 said:
    t0rt0ise said:
    TimeLord1 said:
    @t0rt0ise
    .ue
    • Suppliers are receiving an increasing number of requests from Consumers to have Smart 
    It would be nice to see something a bit more recent. The below is interesting, found in the FAQs.

    "Smart metering will bring significant benefits to consumers and the wider energy system. Government expects energy suppliers to have processes in place to respond to concerns about smart metering, including providing information that may reassure consumers. Once installed, energy suppliers are required under their licence to take all reasonable steps to maintain the smart metering system, including the HAN and WAN. Ofgem is responsible for monitoring and enforcing compliance with these licence conditions."
    These committee meetings once published, will be out of date but based on future legislation and standards to become legal requirements.
    Only if accepted by Ofgem (and DESNZ), though. Until they've been accepted they're just proposals.
    There are more minutes for MP169. Here's a set from June 2024.
    In those minutes they're not expecting this to be introduced until November 2025 or later.
    And in the June 2025 minutes, even that date has disappeared.
    The latest document seems to be version 0.10 of the modification report, which suggests a November 2026 implementation date:
    I think we can safely conclude, then, that as things currently stand:
    • there's no entitlement to having a smart meter installed in dumb mode
    • there never has been such an entitlement, and
    • the possibility of such an option has been repeatedly kicked down the road and will only be implemented if/when Ofgem approves it.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus Intelligent Go elec & Tracker gas / Vodafone BB / iD mobile. Ripple Kirk Hill Coop member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 3.6kw inverter. 35 MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Ofgem cap table, Ofgem cap explainer. Economy 7 cap explainer. Gas vs E7 vs peak elec heating costs, Best kettle!
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