ULEZ appeal advice.

SRosey

Hi folks.

I recently received a PCN for travelling into the ULEZ zone by a factor of one adjacent road. I live in Ashford in Kent and on the occasions we do drive to London it’s night time and quite frankly I had never heard of the ULEZ or noticed the small signs.

When we have driven in, we have always taken my partners mini which we assumed must be ULEZ compliant as we of course never received a PCN for travelling into a zone we knew nothing about.

On this occasion, we took my new car which i had purchased the day before. We therefore received a PCN as mine is clearly not compliant.

When I called over the phone to discuss the matter, they asked me to check a section on my V5 to gain clarity over the vehicles exemption status. That section was blank so they asked me to obtain a certificate of conformity which I could not seem to obtain online without paying £150 which was obviously counterproductive.

I am working on the basis that my 2012 diesel golf is non compliant. However, as both our cars are road tax exempt, and emission zone awareness was even more so not on my radar. Initially at the time, the tfl website did not recognise my car but now it does.

While I accept that ignorance is seldom not an excuse, I knew nothing of the ULEZ zone as I am not a Londoner, I was not consciously thinking about charging zones as we had driven there previously in a different car and not had any issues raised and to be honest on a Saturday night, in the dark with London traffic and associated pedestrians doing their usual, sign hunting was not on our radar.

I have had the initial appeal rejected but I would be keen for advice on wether or not to respond with the the option of an independent tribunal. I don’t want to incur extra costs and I have made it clear I am happy to pay the £12.50.

All I have asked for is a modicum of discretion which has not been forthcoming. Do the independent adjudicatiors employ discretion or are they black and white letter of the law.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks.

S.

SRosey

Also, when I ran my number through their system when I got the PCN, it was unable to tell me for sure if the vehicle was exempt or not and did not recognise the car. However, funnily enough, now that the appeal has been made and I have searched again it accuracy recognised my car reg, make and model.

Inner_Zone

SRosey wrote: »

Hi folks.

I recently received a PCN for travelling into the ULEZ zone by a factor or one road. I live in Ashford in Kent and on the occasions we do drive to London it’s night time and quite frankly I had never heard of the ULEZ or noticed the small signs.

When we have driven in, we have always taken my partners mini which we assumed must be ULEZ compliant as we of course never received a PCN for travelling into a zone we knew nothing about.

On this occasion, we took my new car which i had purchased the day before. We therefore received a PCN as mine is clearly not compliant.

When I called over the phone to discuss the matter, they asked me to check a section on my V5 to gain clarity over the vehicles exemption status. That section was blank so they asked me to obtain a certificate of conformity which I could not seem to obtain online without paying £150 which was obviously counterproductive.

I am working on the basis that my 2012 diesel golf is non compliant. However, as both our cars are road tax exempt, and emission zone awareness was even more so not on my radar.

While I accept that ignorance is seldom not an excuse, I knew nothing of the ULEZ zone as I am not a Londoner, I was not consciously thinking about changing zones as we had driven their previous in a different and not had any issues raised and to be honest on a Saturday night, in the dark with London traffic and associated pedestrians doing their usual, sign hunting was not on our radar.

I have had the initial appeal rejected but I would be keen for advice on wether or not to respond with the the option of an independent tribunal. I don’t want to incur extra costs and I have made it clear I am happy to pay the £12.50.

All I have asked for is a modicum of discretion which has not been forthcoming. Do the independent adjudicatiors employ discretion or are they black and white letter of the law.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks.

S.

If you go to the TFL website:


"To help improve air quality, an Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) operates 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, every day of the year, except Christmas Day, within the same area of central London as the Congestion Charge. Most vehicles, including cars and vans, need to meet the ULEZ emissions standards or their drivers must pay a daily charge to drive within the zone."


"Diesel cars that meet the standards are generally those first registered with the DVLA after September 2015"


So your car would incur the charge. There are signs for both the Congestion Charge and ULEZ zone about 5 to 10 miles out and they are repeated, so do not understand how you missed them.



As your car is not compliant, suggest you cough up, even though this is MSE, you are very unlikely to win any appeal.

SRosey

So their reference to their ability to be discretionary on occasions is false then?

Aylesbury_Duck

I can't see you winning an appeal so I would pay as soon as you can if the penalty is reduced by doing so. The signs are plentiful and you would have passed several on your way in. The obvious counter-argument to you suggesting you didn't notice the signs is that perhaps you should be concerned about what other signage you may not be noticing, especially signage that has more implications on safety for example.

The scheme has also been heavily publicised and nowadays, you are expected to check travel restrictions and rules for any city you visit before just driving in, as you probably have always done to check the likelihood and availability of parking.

Aylesbury_Duck

SRosey wrote: »

So their reference to their ability to be discretionary on occasions is false then?

Not necessarily, they may have just decided not to exercise that discretion in your case.

It wouldn't be discretionary if they upheld every appeal, would it.

Mr_Singleton

SRosey wrote: »

So their reference to their ability to be discretionary on occasions is false then?

..... but it sounds good which is all they care about.... now give us your money!

Car_54

SRosey wrote: »

So their reference to their ability to be discretionary on occasions is false then?

They have exercised their discretion, but not in the direction you'd like. And you haven't given a good reason for your appeal to succeed.

SRosey

Or perhaps the signs are simply not obvious enough as thousands of people have already stated the same. Thanks for the driving tips though.

SRosey

Guess everyone on this thread works for TFL then !

Aylesbury_Duck

SRosey wrote: »

Guess everyone on this thread works for TFL then !

Bingo! And there we have it. Earlier than expected, but it's here. Never gets old.

The signage is on every major route into London, with advance notices as you approach the zone and then signage before the entry to the zone. "It was night time" doesn't really cut it.

You messed up, lots have at some point and lots more will. I see nothing in your argument that makes a reasonable case for having the penalty overturned.