Private PCN - Excel Parking - WE WON!

Snakes_Belly

D_P_Dance said:

Wrong link?

Thanks and corrected.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5919448/county-court-defence-advice-failure-to-park-in-a-marked-bay/p1

This is a good thread to read especially as the case was heard in Derby

Snakes_Belly

Snakes_Belly said:

D_P_Dance said:

Wrong link?

Thanks and corrected.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5919448/county-court-defence-advice-failure-to-park-in-a-marked-bay/p1

This is a good thread to read especially as the case was heard in Derby

Further to the above I was reading Keep Calm's case and noticed that she had made a video of the car park. That may be a good idea to do that especially as these cases are heard on the telephone. If you are dealing with a car park where these is little signage and the spaces are tight it would be useful.

The PPC's tend to provide photographs of the car park when there are no cars parked.

daniel_uk

Snakes, that is exactly what they have done. Photos include a part of a car, however they have included 2 photos in their WS that I could use against them.

Check this out. That space by the metal fencing in the corner. I have no idea if that is a valid parking space or not. That is the other space my girlfriend was going to park in on the day, but it appeared to tight to make it in as there was a large car in the space before. Can my girlfriend make arguments against this to the judge? I am currently working on a bulleted list for her so she can bring these things up.

Snakes_Belly

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nottingham+City+Guitars/@52.9533614,-1.1422828,3a,75y,359.2h,71.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sV8pGDp-z9mmbGe6gIl-hOQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x4879c3d60c7bd6d7:0xae5b374dea1b830b!8m2!3d52.9533903!4d-1.1426682
I took a look on Google maps and the sign at the front of the car park looks as if it is tilted to the left and I don't believe that a motorist would be able to process that information from that sign or that a contract could be formed on entry to the car park. 

Snakes_Belly

daniel_uk said:

Snakes, that is exactly what they have done. Photos include a part of a car, however they have included 2 photos in their WS that I could use against them.

Check this out. That space by the metal fencing in the corner. I have no idea if that is a valid parking space or not. That is the other space my girlfriend was going to park in on the day, but it appeared to tight to make it in as there was a large car in the space before. Can my girlfriend make arguments against this to the judge? I am currently working on a bulleted list for her so she can bring these things up.

I would have thought that the space in the top photograph was a space. In the photo of the so called transgression there was a car in that space, yes?

daniel_uk

No, there was a car in the space before on the day, but my point is it isn't clear. I wonder if I did park there I would get a PCN. What do they define as a bay? As on the terms is says vehicle must be parked wholly within the lines of a single marked bay. Most cars would fall foul of this in this car park as the bays are so small. You can see on street view that anything bigger than a hatchback  can not fit into a space fully.

Snakes_Belly

I would have done the same. Nottingham is quite difficult and expensive to park.  I think most people would have parked there. Hopefully the judge will agree.

You will have to be unlucky to lose this but it is a lottery as the disabled veteran found out in the recent case involving the sister company to Excel.

Did your girlfriend receive any debt collection letters from DRP or Zenith? 

Snakes_Belly

I cannot see how a contract could be formed on entry by the slanted sign. If you stopped to read the sign you would have stopped on double yellow lines and could have incurred a penalty.

The PPC's will state that the contract is formed at the point of entry to the car park. 

So on the day that the parking incident took place there was a car in the space opposite where you and your girlfriend were parked and that space also just had the one white line but looked like a parking space.   

This is a dog's breakfast of a car park. There are two spaces at the back which have all the hallmarks of parking spaces but are ticketed. If you stop to read the terms and conditions before you enter you run the risk of a ticket from a traffic warden.  

daniel_uk

No, she didn't receive any debt collection letters, just Excel letters so I have no idea where the £60 debt recovery amount comes from! Totally, agree it could go against us but I am hoping the judge is understanding. My girlfriend will be prepared and with your people's advice over the past year I think we have a good chance.

Snakes_Belly

If you had received debt collection letters from DRP or Zenith I have a copy of their web page (now taken down) that states that they operate on a no collection no fee basis. CM has covered how to deal with the £60.00 in your defence.

I would mention the double yellows because some judges focus on the contract and it's the signage that creates the contract between the parking company and the motorist.  

They will use a barrier car park (Shoe Lane Case) as an example to illustrate that the contract is formed when you stop at the car park barrier and see the sign. 

In your case you would have to stop on double yellow lines and risk a penalty to view the signage.  A contract cannot possibly have been formed at that point.

I would include an image showing clearly the double yellow lines by the sign on entry to the car park to show that it would have been impossible to stop and read the signs. It's ridiculous to think that a driver could process all that information whilst driving.