Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

michaels

QrizB said:

Netexporter said:

I was quite surprised at the much quicker carbon payback in the US. I just hope they haven't made the mistake of thinking that a US gallon is 8 pints, when converting to proper scientific units, as used in the civilised world.

I think it's based on this IEA report:
https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2024/outlook-for-emissions-reductions
(I've not fully read the report, so I can't say how well the video has represented its findings.)

Not sure that suggests single year carbon payback times - seemed to suggest that the biggest savings (once the grid is greener) would be from 38 tonnes of co2 for an ICE to 15 tonnes for an EV over a 125k mile vehicle lifespan.

Edit - none of the comparisons seem to consider the embedded carbon in going from oil in the ground to petrol at the filling station.  Found one source suggesting it is about 30-50% more than is produced at the tailpipe.

Martyn1981

Couple of other positive reports have come out recently.

We have one showing that globally, only about 1% of EV drivers would go back to a petrol car:

After buying an EV, less than 1% of drivers go back to gas-powered cars

The new Global EV Alliance study collected data from over 23,000 electric vehicle drivers across 18 different countries, including the US, Canada, France, India, Brazil, and more.

They found that EV drivers are overwhelmingly more likely to stick with an electric option rather than return to a gas-powered car.

According to the survey (via Bloomberg), 92% plan to buy another EV, while only 1% said they would return to a gas car. Another 4% of those surveyed said they would choose a plug-in hybrid (PHEV). The biggest factor behind the decision is the lower operating costs (45%).

And a report that has found that EV batteries seem to like a bit of abuse. Real life driving seems to be better for batts than the (more gentle) steady state testing done in a lab. Sounds counter-intuitive, so has been a bit of a surprise.

Existing EV batteries may last up to 40% longer than expected

Consumers’ real-world stop-and-go driving of electric vehicles benefits batteries more than the steady use simulated in almost all laboratory tests of new battery designs, Stanford-SLAC study finds.

“We’ve not been testing EV batteries the right way,” said Simona Onori, senior author and an associate professor of energy science and engineering in the Stanford Doerr School of Sustainability. “To our surprise, real driving with frequent acceleration, braking that charges the batteries a bit, stopping to pop into a store, and letting the batteries rest for hours at a time, helps batteries last longer than we had thought based on industry standard lab tests.”

QrizB

Martyn1981 said:

Netexporter said:

I was quite surprised at the much quicker carbon payback in the US. I just hope they haven't made the mistake of thinking that a US gallon is 8 pints, when converting to proper scientific units, as used in the civilised world.

LOL good point. But (pedantry alert), a US gallon is also 8 pints, it's just that a US pint is smaller (16fl oz v's 20fl oz) than a UK pint.

And if you want to get down into the weeds, US fluid ounces are sligtly larger than UK ones, meaning that 16 fl oz is 454ml in the UK, 473ml in the US.

(The US even has two different "fluid ounces" - for food labelling purposes it's exactly 30ml. Wikipedia has more on it.)

JKenH

Britain becomes Europe’s biggest electric car market for first time

The discounting helped EV sales in Britain jump by a fifth last year to 381,970.*

This put the UK just ahead of Germany, where EV sales fell by 27pc to 380,609. Olaf Scholz’s government abruptly removed subsidies at the end of 2023, leading to a plunge in sales.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/06/britain-europes-biggest-electric-car-buyer-first-time/

* if this figure is correct the Y-o-Y increase may be higher than the 15.7% I suggested in my post on the EV discussion thread.

Edit : Zap-Map cite growth of 21%

https://www.zap-map.com/ev-stats/ev-market

Edit 2: Here are the SMMT stats. I hadn’t been expecting them today as normally they appear on the 4th working day of the month.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

Edit 3: You may be as puzzled as I am why there are different figures from different sources. Here is another source - New Automotive - who show a much lower figure for BEV registrations. 

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e753d15b0eb84693c7e3e21/t/677c1467302c6a7ad300ced2/1736184941816/202501+-+ECC+December+2024.pdf

michaels

Curious that it was Tesla who led the way in December when they had no need to meet any quota themselves - although perhaps every sale is worth several more k by selling a ZEV mandate credit?!

That along with the company car tax break means we are probably subsidising Mr Musk by billions of quid every year - lets hope none of the Labour politicians are smart enough to realise that as otherwise it would be so galling to be realise that their polices are bankrolling their tormentor in chief.....

Martyn1981

michaels said:

Curious that it was Tesla who led the way in December when they had no need to meet any quota themselves - although perhaps every sale is worth several more k by selling a ZEV mandate credit?!

That along with the company car tax break means we are probably subsidising Mr Musk by billions of quid every year - lets hope none of the Labour politicians are smart enough to realise that as otherwise it would be so galling to be realise that their polices are bankrolling their tormentor in chief.....

That is an interesting point. I was going to say funny, but not sure Musk's comments/approach should be called funny, so perhaps 'ironic'.

What I did find funny is the Dec PEV figure of 40%, that's equal to my hoped for 'year x 10%' target for the later months. Didn't think that would happen, and of course it's just a coincidence wityh exaggerated highs due to the need to meet end of year ZEV targets.

Also my made up target does assume more steady rising sales through the year (hence the later months target) but that assumes the next year rises from around that point, which is not what's happening. I expect the 2025 start will have low(er) figures again, but rising in the later months.

Still, can't complain, a 28% PEV figure for 2024 is fine, closer to 40% (say low 30's) would be better, but we can't have everything.

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

You may be as puzzled as I am why there are different figures from different sources. 

As it often said "there are lies, lies, damned lies and statistics"

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

Couple of other positive reports have come out recently.

We have one showing that globally, only about 1% of EV drivers would go back to a petrol car:

After buying an EV, less than 1% of drivers go back to gas-powered cars

The new Global EV Alliance study collected data from over 23,000 electric vehicle drivers across 18 different countries, including the US, Canada, France, India, Brazil, and more.

They found that EV drivers are overwhelmingly more likely to stick with an electric option rather than return to a gas-powered car.

According to the survey (via Bloomberg), 92% plan to buy another EV, while only 1% said they would return to a gas car. Another 4% of those surveyed said they would choose a plug-in hybrid (PHEV). The biggest factor behind the decision is the lower operating costs (45%).

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

You may be as puzzled as I am why there are different figures from different sources. 

As it often said "there are lies, lies, damned lies and statistics"

On the subject of statistics a survey by McKinsey &Co revealed: 

Globally, 29 percent of EV owners in our survey say they are very likely to switch back to an ICE vehicle at their next purchase

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/our-insights/how-european-consumers-perceive-electric-vehicles

 Believe what you want to believe. 

thevilla

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

Couple of other positive reports have come out recently.

We have one showing that globally, only about 1% of EV drivers would go back to a petrol car:

After buying an EV, less than 1% of drivers go back to gas-powered cars

The new Global EV Alliance study collected data from over 23,000 electric vehicle drivers across 18 different countries, including the US, Canada, France, India, Brazil, and more.

They found that EV drivers are overwhelmingly more likely to stick with an electric option rather than return to a gas-powered car.

According to the survey (via Bloomberg), 92% plan to buy another EV, while only 1% said they would return to a gas car. Another 4% of those surveyed said they would choose a plug-in hybrid (PHEV). The biggest factor behind the decision is the lower operating costs (45%).

Grumpy_chap said:

JKenH said:

You may be as puzzled as I am why there are different figures from different sources. 

As it often said "there are lies, lies, damned lies and statistics"

On the subject of statistics a survey by McKinsey &Co revealed: 

Globally, 29 percent of EV owners in our survey say they are very likely to switch back to an ICE vehicle at their next purchase

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/our-insights/how-european-consumers-perceive-electric-vehicles

 Believe what you want to believe. 

According to the video below, McKinsey surveyed buyers very soon after purchase.  Everything new and unfamiliar.  Buyer's remorse.

Personally I'm using a rentel ice in gran canaria atm and absolutely hate it.  I have to keep using the middle pedal down hill and give 5 seconds notice of acceleration!  Good news is EV chargers are appearing here.

https://youtu.be/IHSeLcp2ZSI?si=wwcfVJ-D-dhiRETG

JKenH

New 2025 Tesla Model Y revealed with fresh look

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-2025-tesla-model-y-revealed-fresh-look