Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

michaels

Didn't Elon say there was no value in Tesla as a car manufacturer and any value would be from storage and AI (fsd and Optimus)?

QrizB

michaels said:

Didn't Elon say there was no value in Tesla as a car manufacturer and any value would be from storage and AI (fsd and Optimus)?

There's no apparent value in AI either just a lot of costs, so that only leaves storage!

Magnitio

QrizB said:

michaels said:

Didn't Elon say there was no value in Tesla as a car manufacturer and any value would be from storage and AI (fsd and Optimus)?

There's no apparent value in AI either just a lot of costs, so that only leaves storage!

And robots...

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/tesla-goes-on-a-hiring-spree-as-it-begins-to-ramp-up-production-of-optimus-humanoid-robot-13860392.html

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Speaking of innovation, there is a chance that Tesla will be releasing a new model(s) soon. These are to be the 'more affordable models' that they've been promising for some time.

I was quite skeptical, despite the 2024 Q2 & Q3 earnings reports stating the first half of 2025. So waited to see what the Q4 report would say (released 29th Jan), 90% sure that they would remove. revise, or water down the previous statements, but no, they said it again:

Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025. These vehicles will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms and will be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.

So, late Jan statement for H1, seems too close, unless they are pretty much on target and confident. But at the same time, the statement is typical Tesla ambiquous, allowing for some interpretation, maybe just one vehicle in H1, and maybe test production, which market(s) .... etc etc.

Also, I'm surprised there have been no leaks, whatsoever, which raises doubts. But Tesla does try to keep things under cover (literally), and if based on existing architecture and hardware, that may explain why no test vehicles have been spotted. Typically, camo vehicles get spotted 3-6 months before launch for drivetrain testing in the real world.

So I remain skeptical for H1, but they may surprise.

I notice from the latest marketing I have received from Tesla that the entry level TM3 is priced just below the "premium vehicle" VED threshold.
It may well be that the "more affordable" models that have been long promised might realise and allow Tesla to keep models below that threshold and gain a competitive advantage.  If the new model is a "truncated" TM3 (think along the lines of the original BMW 3-Series Compact versus standard 3-Series), the development costs could be far less than a full new car platform.

Coastalwatch

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Speaking of innovation, there is a chance that Tesla will be releasing a new model(s) soon. These are to be the 'more affordable models' that they've been promising for some time.

I was quite skeptical, despite the 2024 Q2 & Q3 earnings reports stating the first half of 2025. So waited to see what the Q4 report would say (released 29th Jan), 90% sure that they would remove. revise, or water down the previous statements, but no, they said it again:

Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025. These vehicles will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms and will be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.

So, late Jan statement for H1, seems too close, unless they are pretty much on target and confident. But at the same time, the statement is typical Tesla ambiquous, allowing for some interpretation, maybe just one vehicle in H1, and maybe test production, which market(s) .... etc etc.

Also, I'm surprised there have been no leaks, whatsoever, which raises doubts. But Tesla does try to keep things under cover (literally), and if based on existing architecture and hardware, that may explain why no test vehicles have been spotted. Typically, camo vehicles get spotted 3-6 months before launch for drivetrain testing in the real world.

So I remain skeptical for H1, but they may surprise.

I notice from the latest marketing I have received from Tesla that the entry level TM3 is priced just below the "premium vehicle" VED threshold.
It may well be that the "more affordable" models that have been long promised might realise and allow Tesla to keep models below that threshold and gain a competitive advantage.  If the new model is a "truncated" TM3 (think along the lines of the original BMW 3-Series Compact versus standard 3-Series), the development costs could be far less than a full new car platform.

Unless they were well on the way with the new platform but then had to redesign due to FSD not being any time soon so reverting to an old fashioned steering wheel.
I've no idea when FSD was first muted but it seems to have been a topic of conversation for a few years now!

michaels

Coastalwatch said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Speaking of innovation, there is a chance that Tesla will be releasing a new model(s) soon. These are to be the 'more affordable models' that they've been promising for some time.

I was quite skeptical, despite the 2024 Q2 & Q3 earnings reports stating the first half of 2025. So waited to see what the Q4 report would say (released 29th Jan), 90% sure that they would remove. revise, or water down the previous statements, but no, they said it again:

Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025. These vehicles will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms and will be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.

So, late Jan statement for H1, seems too close, unless they are pretty much on target and confident. But at the same time, the statement is typical Tesla ambiquous, allowing for some interpretation, maybe just one vehicle in H1, and maybe test production, which market(s) .... etc etc.

Also, I'm surprised there have been no leaks, whatsoever, which raises doubts. But Tesla does try to keep things under cover (literally), and if based on existing architecture and hardware, that may explain why no test vehicles have been spotted. Typically, camo vehicles get spotted 3-6 months before launch for drivetrain testing in the real world.

So I remain skeptical for H1, but they may surprise.

I notice from the latest marketing I have received from Tesla that the entry level TM3 is priced just below the "premium vehicle" VED threshold.
It may well be that the "more affordable" models that have been long promised might realise and allow Tesla to keep models below that threshold and gain a competitive advantage.  If the new model is a "truncated" TM3 (think along the lines of the original BMW 3-Series Compact versus standard 3-Series), the development costs could be far less than a full new car platform.

Unless they were well on the way with the new platform but then had to redesign due to FSD not being any time soon so reverting to an old fashioned steering wheel.
I've no idea when FSD was first muted but it seems to have been a topic of conversation for a few years now!

Of course the steering wheel is less of a problem if they can use steer by wire from the cybertruck (just chuck in a PS/xbox controller).  However I don't think brake by wire is licensed technology so there is still some need for 'real' control interfaces.

Magnitio

michaels said:

Coastalwatch said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Speaking of innovation, there is a chance that Tesla will be releasing a new model(s) soon. These are to be the 'more affordable models' that they've been promising for some time.

I was quite skeptical, despite the 2024 Q2 & Q3 earnings reports stating the first half of 2025. So waited to see what the Q4 report would say (released 29th Jan), 90% sure that they would remove. revise, or water down the previous statements, but no, they said it again:

Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025. These vehicles will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms and will be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.

So, late Jan statement for H1, seems too close, unless they are pretty much on target and confident. But at the same time, the statement is typical Tesla ambiquous, allowing for some interpretation, maybe just one vehicle in H1, and maybe test production, which market(s) .... etc etc.

Also, I'm surprised there have been no leaks, whatsoever, which raises doubts. But Tesla does try to keep things under cover (literally), and if based on existing architecture and hardware, that may explain why no test vehicles have been spotted. Typically, camo vehicles get spotted 3-6 months before launch for drivetrain testing in the real world.

So I remain skeptical for H1, but they may surprise.

I notice from the latest marketing I have received from Tesla that the entry level TM3 is priced just below the "premium vehicle" VED threshold.
It may well be that the "more affordable" models that have been long promised might realise and allow Tesla to keep models below that threshold and gain a competitive advantage.  If the new model is a "truncated" TM3 (think along the lines of the original BMW 3-Series Compact versus standard 3-Series), the development costs could be far less than a full new car platform.

Unless they were well on the way with the new platform but then had to redesign due to FSD not being any time soon so reverting to an old fashioned steering wheel.
I've no idea when FSD was first muted but it seems to have been a topic of conversation for a few years now!

Of course the steering wheel is less of a problem if they can use steer by wire from the cybertruck (just chuck in a PS/xbox controller).  However I don't think brake by wire is licensed technology so there is still some need for 'real' control interfaces.

There are plenty of cars that now use brake-by-wire, including the Cybertruck.

QrizB

Steering with a game controller is giving me OceanGate vibes

michaels

Magnitio said:

michaels said:

Coastalwatch said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Speaking of innovation, there is a chance that Tesla will be releasing a new model(s) soon. These are to be the 'more affordable models' that they've been promising for some time.

I was quite skeptical, despite the 2024 Q2 & Q3 earnings reports stating the first half of 2025. So waited to see what the Q4 report would say (released 29th Jan), 90% sure that they would remove. revise, or water down the previous statements, but no, they said it again:

Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025. These vehicles will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms and will be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.

So, late Jan statement for H1, seems too close, unless they are pretty much on target and confident. But at the same time, the statement is typical Tesla ambiquous, allowing for some interpretation, maybe just one vehicle in H1, and maybe test production, which market(s) .... etc etc.

Also, I'm surprised there have been no leaks, whatsoever, which raises doubts. But Tesla does try to keep things under cover (literally), and if based on existing architecture and hardware, that may explain why no test vehicles have been spotted. Typically, camo vehicles get spotted 3-6 months before launch for drivetrain testing in the real world.

So I remain skeptical for H1, but they may surprise.

I notice from the latest marketing I have received from Tesla that the entry level TM3 is priced just below the "premium vehicle" VED threshold.
It may well be that the "more affordable" models that have been long promised might realise and allow Tesla to keep models below that threshold and gain a competitive advantage.  If the new model is a "truncated" TM3 (think along the lines of the original BMW 3-Series Compact versus standard 3-Series), the development costs could be far less than a full new car platform.

Unless they were well on the way with the new platform but then had to redesign due to FSD not being any time soon so reverting to an old fashioned steering wheel.
I've no idea when FSD was first muted but it seems to have been a topic of conversation for a few years now!

Of course the steering wheel is less of a problem if they can use steer by wire from the cybertruck (just chuck in a PS/xbox controller).  However I don't think brake by wire is licensed technology so there is still some need for 'real' control interfaces.

There are plenty of cars that now use brake-by-wire, including the Cybertruck.

Really - no direct linkage/hydraulic back up - I though that was not allowed?

Magnitio

michaels said:

Magnitio said:

michaels said:

Coastalwatch said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Speaking of innovation, there is a chance that Tesla will be releasing a new model(s) soon. These are to be the 'more affordable models' that they've been promising for some time.

I was quite skeptical, despite the 2024 Q2 & Q3 earnings reports stating the first half of 2025. So waited to see what the Q4 report would say (released 29th Jan), 90% sure that they would remove. revise, or water down the previous statements, but no, they said it again:

Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025. These vehicles will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms and will be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.

So, late Jan statement for H1, seems too close, unless they are pretty much on target and confident. But at the same time, the statement is typical Tesla ambiquous, allowing for some interpretation, maybe just one vehicle in H1, and maybe test production, which market(s) .... etc etc.

Also, I'm surprised there have been no leaks, whatsoever, which raises doubts. But Tesla does try to keep things under cover (literally), and if based on existing architecture and hardware, that may explain why no test vehicles have been spotted. Typically, camo vehicles get spotted 3-6 months before launch for drivetrain testing in the real world.

So I remain skeptical for H1, but they may surprise.

I notice from the latest marketing I have received from Tesla that the entry level TM3 is priced just below the "premium vehicle" VED threshold.
It may well be that the "more affordable" models that have been long promised might realise and allow Tesla to keep models below that threshold and gain a competitive advantage.  If the new model is a "truncated" TM3 (think along the lines of the original BMW 3-Series Compact versus standard 3-Series), the development costs could be far less than a full new car platform.

Unless they were well on the way with the new platform but then had to redesign due to FSD not being any time soon so reverting to an old fashioned steering wheel.
I've no idea when FSD was first muted but it seems to have been a topic of conversation for a few years now!

Of course the steering wheel is less of a problem if they can use steer by wire from the cybertruck (just chuck in a PS/xbox controller).  However I don't think brake by wire is licensed technology so there is still some need for 'real' control interfaces.

There are plenty of cars that now use brake-by-wire, including the Cybertruck.

Really - no direct linkage/hydraulic back up - I though that was not allowed?

There is a hydraulic backup in case of failure, but when everything is working, any input via the brake pedal is interpreted based on numerous factors including pedal force, speed, steering angle, battery state, tyre grip, proximity to other vehicles etc. to determine how the car is slowed. This could involve using the motor(s) to slow the car, activating the brake pads or a combination. If all systems fail, it should allow the brake pads to be operated by hydraulic pressure alone.