Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Martyn1981

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Reasonable month for BEVs, with a slight increase in market share (compared to last month when market share dropped) but an excellent month for PHEVs. With more cars like the new Skoda Superb with a 25.7kWh battery and 62 miles of range I would expect PHEVs to continue to increase market share.

October new car market beats pre-pandemic levels but subdued EV growth hinders green goals

Electrified vehicle uptake continued to accelerate in October accounting for 37.6% of all new car registrations. Hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) grew 24.6% to reach 19,574 units, while plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) recorded the highest proportional growth, up 60.5% to 14,285 registrations. Battery electric vehicle (BEV) uptake increased for the 42nd month in a row, by 20.1% to 23,943 units.3 Given overall market growth, however, this amounted to a BEV market share of 15.6%, a relatively small rise from last year’s 14.8%.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/11/october-new-car-market-beats-pre-pandemic-levels-but-subdued-ev-growth-hinders-green-goals/

I found this chart on the CarDealer Magazine website interesting. I don’t know the technical name for these moving graphics but did a comparison of the market composition in November 2022 to October 2023. Tesla were the second biggest player in November 2022 but by October 2023 over the year as a whole have slipped down to 13th. https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/best-october-for-new-car-registrations-since-2019-but-ev-growth-is-still-subdued-smmt/292596

The electric range of that Skoda is exactly what the market needs during the transition phase to full electric. 62 miles, although not great for 26kWh, would enable a lot of owners to do most of their journeys without troubling the ICE. It's a great way to experience electricity & the associated low running costs while still having the ICE 'safety net' for longer trips.  

China gets praised quite a lot in articles and comments for the large selection of PHEV's on offer there with very decent ranges (50-80 miles). That's been the case for many years now, whilst Europe and US have been a little slower to offer them.

For comparison, China PEV sales are at about 37%, with 25% BEV and 12% PHEV. I think the PHEV number is relatively static, but it's excellent support for BEV's.* In the US, the PHEV idea has never really caught on significantly, but longer range models may help if it's not now too late, and PHEV's can qualify under the IR Act.

Sweden is possibly the best example for PHEV's, in fact my BiL just got a new(?) secondhand one to replace the older one. He did this as they, like many, live in apartment blocks, and charging options are only slowly rolling out. In Sweden, PEV sales have been really strong, and the majority of PEV sales were PHEV's until only about 2yrs ago, when things flipped rapidly (partly due to subsidy support for PHEV's being reduced). Now the market is at about 61% PEV sales, split 38% BEV / 23% PHEV.

Obviously for maturing markets, PHEV's get squeezed out (as they should), with Norway going from about 30% BEV + 25% PHEV 4yrs ago, to 84% BEV + 7% PHEV now.

*I may be wrong, but I suspect PHEV sales mostly 'steal' market share from ICEV's not BEV's. So whilst they may not be perfect (so to speak), I think they imporove on ICE rather than miss out on BEV's. Plus every PHEV, as it works its way down through owners, will hopefully convert many to the idea of a BEV.

JKenH

Perhaps the growing popularity of PHEVs is the reason Toyota have had a change of mind and decided to bring the latest Prius to the UK after initially choosing not to. You don’t need to watch this video - here’s a summary of how efficient the car can be. The downside is that the car has a pathetic boot so no good for airport runs. 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmZEKbzhzjc

Edit: and still decent city mpg driven as a hybrid starting off with an empty battery. I think this is one of the points often missed when criticising PHEVs for having extra weight of the batteries to lug around “killing” the mpg in ICE mode - they are still hybrids and regenerate and from an emissions point of view with the ICE engine off for a lot of the time (89% in this test, even, starting with an empty battery)  in cities they still are a huge improvement over pure ICE cars. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmZEKbzhzjc

Sorry for all the positive Toyota stories recently but given that less than one in five of us are choosing to buy BEVs I think overall their products (or philosophy) shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand. Not everyone wants a BEV yet and until they do is it not better to get them to drive an efficient PHEV or hybrid rather than a pure ICE vehicle. Cars driven in cities spend a lot of time not moving or at low speed and in that situation a lot of emissions can be avoided with a PHEV or hybrid running on its battery. If the battery is charged beforehand then most, if not all, city journeys in a PHEV would be as clean as in a BEV. That’s not an argument that we don’t need BEVs rather that, for those concerned about local pollution in urban environments, a PHEV can be just as effective as a BEV. 

Just a shame they are so expensive. 

Martyn1981

shinytop said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Reasonable month for BEVs, with a slight increase in market share (compared to last month when market share dropped) but an excellent month for PHEVs. With more cars like the new Skoda Superb with a 25.7kWh battery and 62 miles of range I would expect PHEVs to continue to increase market share.

October new car market beats pre-pandemic levels but subdued EV growth hinders green goals

Electrified vehicle uptake continued to accelerate in October accounting for 37.6% of all new car registrations. Hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) grew 24.6% to reach 19,574 units, while plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) recorded the highest proportional growth, up 60.5% to 14,285 registrations. Battery electric vehicle (BEV) uptake increased for the 42nd month in a row, by 20.1% to 23,943 units.3 Given overall market growth, however, this amounted to a BEV market share of 15.6%, a relatively small rise from last year’s 14.8%.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/11/october-new-car-market-beats-pre-pandemic-levels-but-subdued-ev-growth-hinders-green-goals/

I found this chart on the CarDealer Magazine website interesting. I don’t know the technical name for these moving graphics but did a comparison of the market composition in November 2022 to October 2023. Tesla were the second biggest player in November 2022 but by October 2023 over the year as a whole have slipped down to 13th. https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/best-october-for-new-car-registrations-since-2019-but-ev-growth-is-still-subdued-smmt/292596

The electric range of that Skoda is exactly what the market needs during the transition phase to full electric. 62 miles, although not great for 26kWh, would enable a lot of owners to do most of their journeys without troubling the ICE. It's a great way to experience electricity & the associated low running costs while still having the ICE 'safety net' for longer trips.  

Agreed but why are so many EV enthusiasts so against PHEVs? 

Definitely a Marmite issue for many on articles and forums. Some see PHEV's as a great alternative to ICEV's (kinda BEV light), whilst others see them as a bad alternative to BEV's putting another ICEV on the road for 15yrs. I suspect the truth lies in between, with PHEV's more likely to displace an ICE sale than a BEV sale, so a net positive.

I think the main problem is that they aren't a long term solution. We have to move away from ICE's asap, so PHEV's only have a limited sale time left, perhaps 10(ish) years, especially as BEV's get cheaper. PHEV's are more expensive than an ICE, but don't get the full savings in running costs as a BEV, and can have increased maintenance costs, given they have both ICE and BEV components. Also they are relatively heavy, our Hyundai IONIQ BEV is about 50kg lighter than the ICE (HEV) option, but the PHEV was 50kg heavier than the ICE.

Then there's the fire issue. Whilst BEV's have a lower incidence of fires v's ICEV's, perhaps 1/10th, PHEV's are about 2x higher than ICEV's. But this is possibly being distorted by BYD, which seems to have issues with their PHEV's. Other Chinese brands have criticised them for not having more room for fuel expansion, as PHEV's will naturally use the engine less. But, a huge pinch of salt may be needed, as BYD is constantly under assualt from other Chinese companies as they are doing well, and many of the PHEV fires may be exaggerated, and are often described as BEV fires (to damage BYD BEV sales).

I think a well run PHEV is an excellent alternative to the other ICE options, and if they tick along adding an extra 5-10% of sales to the growing BEV sales, then that must be a plus. For a car sold today a MHEV is better than an ICE, a HEV is better than a MHEV, a PHEV is better than a HEV, and a BEV for those that can manage it, better than PHEV.

A friend got a PHEV Kona a couple of years back. His company car lease was coming to an end, and whilst he was in two minds, a BEV wouldn't be available during the change over period. He recently said that the BEV would have worked, with hindsight. But the big takeaway, I believe, is that the PHEV encouraged them to change the main family car from ICE to BEV, a lovely MG. So one PHEV, will lead to two BEV's longer term.

Edit - Just to say that I think that all ICEV's should now be MHEV's as a starting point, which would cost a bit more, but help save a bit of fuel, and emissions. M.

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

shinytop said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Reasonable month for BEVs, with a slight increase in market share (compared to last month when market share dropped) but an excellent month for PHEVs. With more cars like the new Skoda Superb with a 25.7kWh battery and 62 miles of range I would expect PHEVs to continue to increase market share.

October new car market beats pre-pandemic levels but subdued EV growth hinders green goals

Electrified vehicle uptake continued to accelerate in October accounting for 37.6% of all new car registrations. Hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) grew 24.6% to reach 19,574 units, while plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) recorded the highest proportional growth, up 60.5% to 14,285 registrations. Battery electric vehicle (BEV) uptake increased for the 42nd month in a row, by 20.1% to 23,943 units.3 Given overall market growth, however, this amounted to a BEV market share of 15.6%, a relatively small rise from last year’s 14.8%.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/11/october-new-car-market-beats-pre-pandemic-levels-but-subdued-ev-growth-hinders-green-goals/

I found this chart on the CarDealer Magazine website interesting. I don’t know the technical name for these moving graphics but did a comparison of the market composition in November 2022 to October 2023. Tesla were the second biggest player in November 2022 but by October 2023 over the year as a whole have slipped down to 13th. https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/best-october-for-new-car-registrations-since-2019-but-ev-growth-is-still-subdued-smmt/292596

The electric range of that Skoda is exactly what the market needs during the transition phase to full electric. 62 miles, although not great for 26kWh, would enable a lot of owners to do most of their journeys without troubling the ICE. It's a great way to experience electricity & the associated low running costs while still having the ICE 'safety net' for longer trips.  

Agreed but why are so many EV enthusiasts so against PHEVs? 

Definitely a Marmite issue for many on articles and forums. Some see PHEV's as a great alternative to ICEV's (kinda BEV light), whilst others see them as a bad alternative to BEV's putting another ICEV on the road for 15yrs. I suspect the truth lies in between, with PHEV's more likely to displace an ICE sale than a BEV sale, so a net positive.

I think the main problem is that they aren't a long term solution. We have to move away from ICE's asap, so PHEV's only have a limited sale time left, perhaps 10(ish) years, especially as BEV's get cheaper. PHEV's are more expensive than an ICE, but don't get the full savings in running costs as a BEV, and can have increased maintenance costs, given they have both ICE and BEV components. Also they are relatively heavy, our Hyundai IONIQ BEV is about 50kg lighter than the ICE (HEV) option, but the PHEV was 50kg heavier than the ICE.

Then there's the fire issue. Whilst BEV's have a lower incidence of fires v's ICEV's, perhaps 1/10th, PHEV's are about 2x higher than ICEV's. But this is possibly being distorted by BYD, which seems to have issues with their PHEV's. Other Chinese brands have criticised them for not having more room for fuel expansion, as PHEV's will naturally use the engine less. But, a huge pinch of salt may be needed, as BYD is constantly under assualt from other Chinese companies as they are doing well, and many of the PHEV fires may be exaggerated, and are often described as BEV fires (to damage BYD BEV sales).

I think a well run PHEV is an excellent alternative to the other ICE options, and if they tick along adding an extra 5-10% of sales to the growing BEV sales, then that must be a plus. For a car sold today a MHEV is better than an ICE, a HEV is better than a MHEV, a PHEV is better than a HEV, and a BEV for those that can manage it, better than PHEV.

A friend got a PHEV Kona a couple of years back. His company car lease was coming to an end, and whilst he was in two minds, a BEV wouldn't be available during the change over period. He recently said that the BEV would have worked, with hindsight. But the big takeaway, I believe, is that the PHEV encouraged them to change the main family car from ICE to BEV, a lovely MG. So one PHEV, will lead to two BEV's longer term.

For once I agree with Mart’s pragmatic response. In answer to @shinytop’s question (but why are so many EV enthusiasts so against PHEVs?). I would however add that there is also an element in the EV community who are ideologically opposed to PHEVs or HEVs being promoted as part of the solution and particularly to Toyota’s role in pushing them. 

Perhaps I can suggest an analogy. We will all (certain limited exceptions) eventually have to ditch our gas and oil CH boilers and go the heat pump route. Some of us who are committed to CO2 reduction have looked at the option and decided that for us (be it cost of installation/running or practical reasons) for now gas/oil working works best. Others have taken the plunge and from comments on MSE are generally happy with their heat pumps. There are a few of us however who have tried a hybrid approach combining our old central heating with A2ASHPS and for us that seems to be the best solution (for now). I don’t  use my boiler for 6 months of the year and this time of year use an A2ASHP to locally heat the lounge during daylight hours and only give the CH a short blast morning and evening to warm the kitchen and rest of the house. By adopting this hybrid approach I have halved my oil consumption and have a comfortable house. For some A2ASHPs alone can provide an almost complete heating solution with perhaps a back up convector heater.

A similar hybrid (PHEV) approach can work for many motorists, making use of TOU tariffs to cut their fuel costs without incurring the (perceived by them) inconvenience and unreliability of public charging. The cheap fuel cost may become addictive and they may make the move to a BEV, as in the example Mart gave. Or they may just prefer to stick with the PHEV (hybrid) solution finding they can do nearly all of their mileage on electricity. (Not everyone charges up and down the motorway every week). Until you’ve put a toe in the water you just don’t know. 

I don’t think we should be critical of companies selling PHEVs any more than we should be critical of those selling A2ASHPs but sadly some people (often those who own EVs while finding excuses to keep their oil/gas central heating) like to take the moral high ground. 

1961Nick

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

shinytop said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Reasonable month for BEVs, with a slight increase in market share (compared to last month when market share dropped) but an excellent month for PHEVs. With more cars like the new Skoda Superb with a 25.7kWh battery and 62 miles of range I would expect PHEVs to continue to increase market share.

October new car market beats pre-pandemic levels but subdued EV growth hinders green goals

Electrified vehicle uptake continued to accelerate in October accounting for 37.6% of all new car registrations. Hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) grew 24.6% to reach 19,574 units, while plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) recorded the highest proportional growth, up 60.5% to 14,285 registrations. Battery electric vehicle (BEV) uptake increased for the 42nd month in a row, by 20.1% to 23,943 units.3 Given overall market growth, however, this amounted to a BEV market share of 15.6%, a relatively small rise from last year’s 14.8%.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/11/october-new-car-market-beats-pre-pandemic-levels-but-subdued-ev-growth-hinders-green-goals/

I found this chart on the CarDealer Magazine website interesting. I don’t know the technical name for these moving graphics but did a comparison of the market composition in November 2022 to October 2023. Tesla were the second biggest player in November 2022 but by October 2023 over the year as a whole have slipped down to 13th. https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/best-october-for-new-car-registrations-since-2019-but-ev-growth-is-still-subdued-smmt/292596

The electric range of that Skoda is exactly what the market needs during the transition phase to full electric. 62 miles, although not great for 26kWh, would enable a lot of owners to do most of their journeys without troubling the ICE. It's a great way to experience electricity & the associated low running costs while still having the ICE 'safety net' for longer trips.  

Agreed but why are so many EV enthusiasts so against PHEVs? 

Definitely a Marmite issue for many on articles and forums. Some see PHEV's as a great alternative to ICEV's (kinda BEV light), whilst others see them as a bad alternative to BEV's putting another ICEV on the road for 15yrs. I suspect the truth lies in between, with PHEV's more likely to displace an ICE sale than a BEV sale, so a net positive.

I think the main problem is that they aren't a long term solution. We have to move away from ICE's asap, so PHEV's only have a limited sale time left, perhaps 10(ish) years, especially as BEV's get cheaper. PHEV's are more expensive than an ICE, but don't get the full savings in running costs as a BEV, and can have increased maintenance costs, given they have both ICE and BEV components. Also they are relatively heavy, our Hyundai IONIQ BEV is about 50kg lighter than the ICE (HEV) option, but the PHEV was 50kg heavier than the ICE.

Then there's the fire issue. Whilst BEV's have a lower incidence of fires v's ICEV's, perhaps 1/10th, PHEV's are about 2x higher than ICEV's. But this is possibly being distorted by BYD, which seems to have issues with their PHEV's. Other Chinese brands have criticised them for not having more room for fuel expansion, as PHEV's will naturally use the engine less. But, a huge pinch of salt may be needed, as BYD is constantly under assualt from other Chinese companies as they are doing well, and many of the PHEV fires may be exaggerated, and are often described as BEV fires (to damage BYD BEV sales).

I think a well run PHEV is an excellent alternative to the other ICE options, and if they tick along adding an extra 5-10% of sales to the growing BEV sales, then that must be a plus. For a car sold today a MHEV is better than an ICE, a HEV is better than a MHEV, a PHEV is better than a HEV, and a BEV for those that can manage it, better than PHEV.

A friend got a PHEV Kona a couple of years back. His company car lease was coming to an end, and whilst he was in two minds, a BEV wouldn't be available during the change over period. He recently said that the BEV would have worked, with hindsight. But the big takeaway, I believe, is that the PHEV encouraged them to change the main family car from ICE to BEV, a lovely MG. So one PHEV, will lead to two BEV's longer term.

For once I agree with Mart’s pragmatic response. In answer to @shinytop’s question (but why are so many EV enthusiasts so against PHEVs?). I would however add that there is also an element in the EV community who are ideologically opposed to PHEVs or HEVs being promoted as part of the solution and particularly to Toyota’s role in pushing them. 

Perhaps I can suggest an analogy. We will all (certain limited exceptions) eventually have to ditch our gas and oil CH boilers and go the heat pump route. Some of us who are committed to CO2 reduction have looked at the option and decided that for us (be it cost of installation/running or practical reasons) for now gas/oil working works best. Others have taken the plunge and from comments on MSE are generally happy with their heat pumps. There are a few of us however who have tried a hybrid approach combining our old central heating with A2ASHPS and for us that seems to be the best solution (for now). I don’t  use my boiler for 6 months of the year and this time of year use an A2ASHP to locally heat the lounge during daylight hours and only give the CH a short blast morning and evening to warm the kitchen and rest of the house. By adopting this hybrid approach I have halved my oil consumption and have a comfortable house. For some A2ASHPs alone can provide an almost complete heating solution with perhaps a back up convector heater.

A similar hybrid (PHEV) approach can work for many motorists, making use of TOU tariffs to cut their fuel costs without incurring the (perceived by them) inconvenience and unreliability of public charging. The cheap fuel cost may become addictive and they may make the move to a BEV, as in the example Mart gave. Or they may just prefer to stick with the PHEV (hybrid) solution finding they can do nearly all of their mileage on electricity. (Not everyone charges up and down the motorway every week). Until you’ve put a toe in the water you just don’t know. 

I don’t think we should be critical of companies selling PHEVs any more than we should be critical of those selling A2ASHPs but sadly some people (often those who own EVs while finding excuses to keep their oil/gas central heating) like to take the moral high ground. 

With a similar air/air heat pump set up as you, I've reduced gas consumption from a peak of 28,800kWh pa to just 9750kWh pa. That's basically a 65% reduction in gas consumption for 25% of the price of installing a air/water heat pump... & a much better SCOP as well (5.4 v. 3.2).

The same thing may apply to many PHEVs. A small battery & a 60 mile range could in many cases take care of 75% of the vehicle's total mileage. I've just messaged a friend who has a XC60 T8 recharge (455bhp) to see if he knows what percentage of his mileage is electric - electric range is 31 miles.

Edit:
He reckons around 50% of his mileage is purely electric.

Edit:
It has an 18kWh battery & will do 45 electric miles in summer & around 35 miles in winter.

Coastalwatch

56 cms is quite some length and something of a step change when compared to other manufacturers. With higher energy density, no figures given, faster charging and superior driving range there appears to be a lot going for them. On the down side perhaps is being high nickel, an element with it's own mining issues. It will be interesting to see how they perform and whether others follow their lead.

Polestar 5 receives 56-centimetre-long cells from SK On

SK On and Polestar announced that these will be exceptionally large cells with a length of 56 centimetres, which SK On will supply. The start of production of the Polestar 5 is scheduled for 2025. Earlier reports mentioned 2024, meaning the launch has been pushed back.

“SK On was chosen by Polestar due to their superior battery cell technology that offers high-performing chemistry, fast charging, efficient discharging and superior driving range,” it says.

https://www.electrive.com/2023/11/06/polestar-5-receives-56-centimetre-long-cells-from-sk-on/

michaels

shinytop said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Reasonable month for BEVs, with a slight increase in market share (compared to last month when market share dropped) but an excellent month for PHEVs. With more cars like the new Skoda Superb with a 25.7kWh battery and 62 miles of range I would expect PHEVs to continue to increase market share.

October new car market beats pre-pandemic levels but subdued EV growth hinders green goals

Electrified vehicle uptake continued to accelerate in October accounting for 37.6% of all new car registrations. Hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) grew 24.6% to reach 19,574 units, while plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) recorded the highest proportional growth, up 60.5% to 14,285 registrations. Battery electric vehicle (BEV) uptake increased for the 42nd month in a row, by 20.1% to 23,943 units.3 Given overall market growth, however, this amounted to a BEV market share of 15.6%, a relatively small rise from last year’s 14.8%.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/11/october-new-car-market-beats-pre-pandemic-levels-but-subdued-ev-growth-hinders-green-goals/

I found this chart on the CarDealer Magazine website interesting. I don’t know the technical name for these moving graphics but did a comparison of the market composition in November 2022 to October 2023. Tesla were the second biggest player in November 2022 but by October 2023 over the year as a whole have slipped down to 13th. https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/best-october-for-new-car-registrations-since-2019-but-ev-growth-is-still-subdued-smmt/292596

The electric range of that Skoda is exactly what the market needs during the transition phase to full electric. 62 miles, although not great for 26kWh, would enable a lot of owners to do most of their journeys without troubling the ICE. It's a great way to experience electricity & the associated low running costs while still having the ICE 'safety net' for longer trips.  

Agreed but why are so many EV enthusiasts so against PHEVs? 

Phevs in the UK originally meant the Mitsubushi Outlander suv/4x4 which sold in large volumes due to a company car tax break for Phevs.  The battery range was small and they were rarely driven on battery because people couldn't be bothered so instead were generally run on their inefficient 2l petrol engine so actually caused more pollution than if they had not been a phev at all.

I suspect many who have a phev will not actually both to plug it in regularly and will almost certainly never public charge as petrol miles are generally cheaper so once they go to non-driveway owning second owners they will be exclusively run on petrol.

So Phev in theory is a win, in practice is probably a waste of a good battery.

Martyn1981

michaels said:

shinytop said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Reasonable month for BEVs, with a slight increase in market share (compared to last month when market share dropped) but an excellent month for PHEVs. With more cars like the new Skoda Superb with a 25.7kWh battery and 62 miles of range I would expect PHEVs to continue to increase market share.

October new car market beats pre-pandemic levels but subdued EV growth hinders green goals

Electrified vehicle uptake continued to accelerate in October accounting for 37.6% of all new car registrations. Hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) grew 24.6% to reach 19,574 units, while plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) recorded the highest proportional growth, up 60.5% to 14,285 registrations. Battery electric vehicle (BEV) uptake increased for the 42nd month in a row, by 20.1% to 23,943 units.3 Given overall market growth, however, this amounted to a BEV market share of 15.6%, a relatively small rise from last year’s 14.8%.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/11/october-new-car-market-beats-pre-pandemic-levels-but-subdued-ev-growth-hinders-green-goals/

I found this chart on the CarDealer Magazine website interesting. I don’t know the technical name for these moving graphics but did a comparison of the market composition in November 2022 to October 2023. Tesla were the second biggest player in November 2022 but by October 2023 over the year as a whole have slipped down to 13th. https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/best-october-for-new-car-registrations-since-2019-but-ev-growth-is-still-subdued-smmt/292596

The electric range of that Skoda is exactly what the market needs during the transition phase to full electric. 62 miles, although not great for 26kWh, would enable a lot of owners to do most of their journeys without troubling the ICE. It's a great way to experience electricity & the associated low running costs while still having the ICE 'safety net' for longer trips.  

Agreed but why are so many EV enthusiasts so against PHEVs? 

Phevs in the UK originally meant the Mitsubushi Outlander suv/4x4 which sold in large volumes due to a company car tax break for Phevs.  The battery range was small and they were rarely driven on battery because people couldn't be bothered so instead were generally run on their inefficient 2l petrol engine so actually caused more pollution than if they had not been a phev at all.

I suspect many who have a phev will not actually both to plug it in regularly and will almost certainly never public charge as petrol miles are generally cheaper so once they go to non-driveway owning second owners they will be exclusively run on petrol.

So Phev in theory is a win, in practice is probably a waste of a good battery.

I think that's entirely fair, and unfair at the same time, which is possibly why PHEV's are so contentious.

I remember watching the numbers for the Outlander sales, and cheering them on. A great idea I felt, like the Prius Prime (12miles of range?), and when BEV's didn't look like they could make it big due to range and lack of rapid charging locations (none).

But ...... sadly, you are right, that many weren't used 'properly', and that was very disheartening. Especially as we couldn't forsee ever being able to buy something like that (pre rolling the dice on Tesla shares).

But, and this is a heavily caveated but, if a PHEV displaces an ICE purchase, and the buyer can't make a BEV work for them, afford it, or honestly believes it's not viable, then driven mostly on leccy, it's a great compliment to the transition to BEV's. [I may be lying to myself, but I hope not, that PHEV sales largely displace ICE sales, so it's a net plus.]

I appreciate that sounds a bit dubious, but some PHEV owners really do go all in on the leccy side. Though I take your point about rapid charging v's petrol costs, also, the PHEV may only have 7kW A/C charging.

What I see on some comments and forums is a genuine argument for PHEV's over BEV's, by some people, who feel the BEV limitations of range and charging are too great. That's when things get a bit more heated, especially if the site has a G&E leaning, given the PHEV is often burning FF's. Perhaps, what I'm seeing is more an issue for UK and US drivers, where the charging infrastructure is weaker, for non Tesla BEV's to charge, so that may resolve itself over the next few years, fingers crossed.

There's also, of course, the elephant in the room, or the 'turd in the punchbowl', which is Toyota. As they've been actively campaigning against BEV's for about a decade, and trying to promote PHEV's and HFCV's instead. They use the forked tongue approach of pretending they are trying to offer more choice, whilst not offering BEV's themselves (till now), and trying to undermine confidence in them at the same time. That's largely backfired for them, but I suspect VWG were extremely grateful as it shifted the focus off them, for poor environmental actions.

Toyota could (and should) have been leading the charge on BEV's. In fact, I feel they made a massive mistake, as they could have taken the Tesla appraoch and started with small numbers of expensive BEV's, to minimise losses/investment, and expanded from there. And all of this could have been done under the Lexus brand, to avoid any issues/criticisms. Even after missing the chance to lead, they still could have lept into action in 2012, when the Tesla S proved that BEV's were viable, in that segment.

Ho hum, spilt milk perhaps?

Spies

michaels said:

shinytop said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

Reasonable month for BEVs, with a slight increase in market share (compared to last month when market share dropped) but an excellent month for PHEVs. With more cars like the new Skoda Superb with a 25.7kWh battery and 62 miles of range I would expect PHEVs to continue to increase market share.

October new car market beats pre-pandemic levels but subdued EV growth hinders green goals

Electrified vehicle uptake continued to accelerate in October accounting for 37.6% of all new car registrations. Hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) grew 24.6% to reach 19,574 units, while plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) recorded the highest proportional growth, up 60.5% to 14,285 registrations. Battery electric vehicle (BEV) uptake increased for the 42nd month in a row, by 20.1% to 23,943 units.3 Given overall market growth, however, this amounted to a BEV market share of 15.6%, a relatively small rise from last year’s 14.8%.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2023/11/october-new-car-market-beats-pre-pandemic-levels-but-subdued-ev-growth-hinders-green-goals/

I found this chart on the CarDealer Magazine website interesting. I don’t know the technical name for these moving graphics but did a comparison of the market composition in November 2022 to October 2023. Tesla were the second biggest player in November 2022 but by October 2023 over the year as a whole have slipped down to 13th. https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/best-october-for-new-car-registrations-since-2019-but-ev-growth-is-still-subdued-smmt/292596

The electric range of that Skoda is exactly what the market needs during the transition phase to full electric. 62 miles, although not great for 26kWh, would enable a lot of owners to do most of their journeys without troubling the ICE. It's a great way to experience electricity & the associated low running costs while still having the ICE 'safety net' for longer trips.  

Agreed but why are so many EV enthusiasts so against PHEVs? 

Phevs in the UK originally meant the Mitsubushi Outlander suv/4x4 which sold in large volumes due to a company car tax break for Phevs.  The battery range was small and they were rarely driven on battery because people couldn't be bothered so instead were generally run on their inefficient 2l petrol engine so actually caused more pollution than if they had not been a phev at all.

I suspect many who have a phev will not actually both to plug it in regularly and will almost certainly never public charge as petrol miles are generally cheaper so once they go to non-driveway owning second owners they will be exclusively run on petrol.

So Phev in theory is a win, in practice is probably a waste of a good battery.

SIL has an Outlander from her company, I don't think the charge port has EVER been opened.

JKenH

Friends of ours who live in a smallholding have a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and solar on the outbuilding roofs with a dedicated charger. They don’t go very far in the Outlander and so it doesn’t need petrol very often. I have heard the stories about the company car drivers 5 or 6 years ago with the Golf GTEs who never unpacked the charging cable. Like the EV drivers who never go outside their range and the Leaf 24kWh drivers who will happily set off on a 500 mile trip there are a wide range of use cases out there so we shouldn’t tar everyone with the same brush. 

While a PHEV does attract a slightly lower BIK I doubt they are as abused as previously and like Nick’s friend there will be those who run them as much as possible on electrons. 

I did actually order a new Golf GTE in the summer of 2017 (or was it 2018) but after 6 months with the delivery date getting pushed further and further away I gave up and got an ICE Golf instead. A friend had one as a company car (yes, he did plug it in, especially in winter to defrost the cabin) and I did investigate buying it as it came off its 2 year contract but the price was only £4K less than what I was going to pay for a new one and so didn’t bother.