Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

silverwhistle said:

I noticed on my phone feed an article from the FT but behind a paywall, referring to solid state batteries in a few years, with a picture of a Toyota car as part of the heading. If I had to guess I'd suspect the company have been busy briefing and providing convenient photographs for publication.

Not many of us will be waiting for Toyota..

If this is the article (link below) from 27 October, it doesn’t read like a Toyota press release using terminology such as ‘Toyota’s latest claim of a breakthrough’, ‘The first “breakthrough”, claimed by Toyota in June’ and ‘there is scepticism that Toyota has achieved this’
If you can’t access the article it’s best not to speculate on its content or source.

How solid-state batteries could transform transport

Toyota appears close to a manufacturing breakthrough that could accelerate the transition to electric vehicles. But will the technology ever be commercially viable?

https://www.ft.com/content/f4353d2b-f941-475b-bc1d-a64475503ea6

Toyota are one of the leading, if not the leading, developers of solid state batteries and given their potential to considerably increase the range of EVs I don’t understand the cynicism and negativity - unless it’s just because some people would hate to see Toyota succeed and remain the world’s leading auto manufacturer. Commercially Toyota’s careful approach to EVs seems to be working better than some of their competitors such as VW and Ford. Why spend billions developing EVs with a battery technology that may soon be superseded if they are confident that they can pull off solid state batteries? 

ABrass

Why would you think Toyota are in the lead on solid state batteries? It's not as if they have any experience in them. Especially as some limited volumes are already in production by other manufacturers.

Plus the appearance of solid state batteries won't immediately result in the disappearance of lithium ion batteries. At best it would take half a decade or more to ramp up to the same volumes as lithium ion can provide now.

Toyota are doing what VW used to do, EVs by press release, with no intention of doing anything. If Toyota meant what they said they'd only be building Hybrids by now.

Grumpy_chap

ABrass said:

Has anyone else noticed that the Tesla Model 3 is the same price it was when it launched? (SR+ compared to Highland version)

Four years later and a lot of inflation.

I believe the starting price for a Vauxhall Corsa has gone from £12,000 to £19,000 over the same 2019-23 period 

Prices today on the Tesla website are £40k (SR) and £50k (LR).
IIRC, the original launch price for the TM3 was somewhere in the low £30k range.

ABrass

Grumpy_chap said:

ABrass said:

Has anyone else noticed that the Tesla Model 3 is the same price it was when it launched? (SR+ compared to Highland version)

Four years later and a lot of inflation.

I believe the starting price for a Vauxhall Corsa has gone from £12,000 to £19,000 over the same 2019-23 period 

Prices today on the Tesla website are £40k (SR) and £50k (LR).
IIRC, the original launch price for the TM3 was somewhere in the low £30k range.

You don't RC as it happens 😋. The SR+ was £37,500 including the £3,500 grant. The Standard range was only available in theory and it was still something like £35,000

Grumpy_chap

ABrass said:

You don't RC as it happens 😋. The SR+ was £37,500 including the £3,500 grant. The Standard range was only available in theory and it was still something like £35,000

Thanks.
https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-buying/2019/uk-pricing-for-tesla-model-3-slashed/
In my book £37.5k is not the same as £40k.


The list prices mean very little - I paid far less than £50k for my LR in June.  List price on the day I purchased was £51k...

Martyn1981

silverwhistle said:

I noticed on my phone feed an article from the FT but behind a paywall, referring to solid state batteries in a few years, with a picture of a Toyota car as part of the heading. If I had to guess I'd suspect the company have been busy briefing and providing convenient photographs for publication.

Not many of us will be waiting for Toyota..

Toyota have been announcing battery breakthroughs for a decade or more. And every 2 or 3 yrs since 2017, have announced a solid state battery breakthrough (ready within 5yrs). Often their announcements seem to coincide with news of BEV sales growing. Perhaps trying to 'Osborne' the competition, by tricking buyers into thinking they have something better?

The last claim was this summer with a ~750mile range car (battery) that would charge in 10mins. Half the weight, size and cost, and might be ready as soon as 2027.

EricMears

Martyn1981 said:

Toyota have been announcing battery breakthroughs for a decade or more. And every 2 or 3 yrs since 2017, have announced a solid state battery breakthrough (ready within 5yrs). 

News releases of something that might happen 5 years hence really aren't "news" !

One cannot help but be reminded of all the 'news releases' in the 1950s & 60s assuring us that fusion power was just around the corner and would mean that electricity would soon become "too cheap to meter" !  I've had a fair few electricity bills since then but all my providers have kept metering.

When I can see a car in the showroom with a solid state battery and a potential range of 1000+ miles I might take a bit more interest.

ABrass

This one is different, it's solid state batteries in four years. 

JKenH

EricMears said:

Martyn1981 said:

Toyota have been announcing battery breakthroughs for a decade or more. And every 2 or 3 yrs since 2017, have announced a solid state battery breakthrough (ready within 5yrs). 

News releases of something that might happen 5 years hence really aren't "news"!

You mean things like the Tesla Semi, Robotaxis and, the way things are going, the CyberTruck?

EricMears

ABrass said:

This one is different, it's solid state batteries in four years. 

Please revisit this thread in 5 years time and let us know how it went