Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

2nd_time_buyer

That is very cool. I can see that has some (sea)legs. Weight and volume are of little consequence at sea. Perhaps, you would not even need to go into port. You could have "Battery Island" container ships for on-water refuelling.  

1961Nick

JKenH said:

michaels said:

JKenH said:

2nd_time_buyer said:

JKenH said:

orrery said:

JKenH said:

Battery manufacturing is very CO2 intensive...

But bear in mind that it doesn't need to be CO2 intensive. Mining uses equipment powered by fossil fuels, but it doesn't need to. The high temperatures required to refine the materials use FF, but it can't be beyond the wit of man to move these over to renewables.

The CO2 intensive bit is only during the transition to a fully renewable future - which is why we are making the batteries in the first place. As we move forwards, the amount of CO2 in these processes will also reduce.

There can't be an argument that says we're not allowed to emit CO2 in building a future that doesn't emit CO2.

The problem is that the majority of battery manufacturing is done in China which is still heavily dependent on fossil fuels and likely to be for some time yet. 

Probably better they are making batteries and BEVs than ICE vehicles. 

But surely it would be better for CO2 levels if instead of making 25% more batteries to keep as exchange units they made 25% more EVs with those batteries.We would displace 25% more  ICEvs. Battery production is constrained. Putting 20% of battery manufacture to one side instead of using them in EVs is not good for CO2.

Perhaps the availability of rapid swap means that people are willing to accept 25% smaller packs than they would insist on if they knew charging would take 30 mins rather than 3?

Would you, say, be happy with a 225 mile range car rather than 300, which is what I will be looking for in my next EV? Would Mart or Nick be prepared to trade down from their 300 mile Teslas to a 225 mile range with the ability to swap batteries quickly?

It’s not a rhetorical question, I am genuinely interested to know.

I've never needed a public charger in 18,000 miles & that works for me. A 225 mile range would have necessitated a few battery swaps or charges so that would have been inconvenient. 

shinytop

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/06/29/electric-cars-should-have-government-tracking-devices-tax-mile/

I can't read the article either but you get the idea. I suppose the money has to come from somewhere. 

2nd_time_buyer

shinytop said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/06/29/electric-cars-should-have-government-tracking-devices-tax-mile/

I can't read the article either but you get the idea. I suppose the money has to come from somewhere. 

If you a desperate to read a Telegraph article, then if you refresh the page and then with a bit of quick Ctrl-A (select all) and Ctrl-C (copy) you should be able to copy all the text. You can then paste it into a document. 

thevilla

JKenH said:

thevilla said:

JKenH said:

orrery said:

JKenH said:

Battery manufacturing is very CO2 intensive...

But bear in mind that it doesn't need to be CO2 intensive. Mining uses equipment powered by fossil fuels, but it doesn't need to. The high temperatures required to refine the materials use FF, but it can't be beyond the wit of man to move these over to renewables.

The CO2 intensive bit is only during the transition to a fully renewable future - which is why we are making the batteries in the first place. As we move forwards, the amount of CO2 in these processes will also reduce.

There can't be an argument that says we're not allowed to emit CO2 in building a future that doesn't emit CO2.

The problem is that the majority of battery manufacturing is done in China which is still heavily dependent on fossil fuels and likely to be for some time yet. 

I watched Robert Llewellyn yesterday by coincidence who has a few words to say about the argument that EV production isn't perfect so we need to drill more oil until something perfect come along.....

https://youtu.be/rLvtAhxbLXs

Forgive a little cynicism. Robert Llewelyn was (and probably still is) a good comedian but not someone I would rely on as a source of informed comment any more than I would rely on the Daily Mail. He promotes green technology on a YouTube channel. I don’t fully understand Fully Charged’s business model anymore than I understand the business models of other YouTubers. However I suspect it works along the same lines as other media organisations such as Daily Mail - if you keep producing material your readers like to hear/see, they will keep viewing/clicking/subscribing and that will be translated into income. His whimsical style appeals to a certain mindset but his core product is confirmation bias. He has 896 subscribers to his Fully Charged YouTube channel so has probably found a winning formula. Do those subscribers tune in to be informed, to be entertained or just hear ‘Bobby’ tell them what they want to hear and what they most probably already know?


If you want an informative English YouTube climate change channel I suggest you try Just Have A Think.


Edit: moved )

There's nothing wrong with a healthy level of cynicism.  Fully charged seems to be mostly car reviews and sponsored products.  I think Robert let himself have a rant to celebrate 12 years since he started the channel.  I do agree with his assertion we need to resist back peddling on phasing out icevs and I reckon there is a lot more money piling in to doing just that than any YouTube channel could muster.

silverwhistle

shinytop said:

Or instead of making X million cars with 300 mile ranges, make 2X million cars with 150 mile ranges.  Because nobody really needs a 300 mile range, do they?  <insert normal safe driving hours/bladder capacity/you can stop for a nice cup of tea/90% of journeys are less than 10 miles arguments>

That's effectively what I've got (maximum seen on the GOM 178m), and deals with most of my trips so far. I'm planning others, and particularly across France coverage of >=50kW is a bit sketchy in places, as are the Dales and some surprisingly large towns in the UK. In both cases the main axial routes aren't too bad for coverage.

In light of the bladder/safety etc. issue I think better charging would be less resource intensive than shifting battery weight around the place, whether that is one battery or more. But battery change stations would never be as widespread as chargepoints, and if you only need a small charge they won't be worth changing anyway. I could perhaps see the argument for the M1s or A6s of this world.

Other people with different usage patterns and definitely more money will no doubt be prepared to pay for the additional range, but it would be interesting if they were to do a CBA on just the difference between 150 and 300 mile ranges.

Martyn1981

Fun (but serious article). Remember last year when we heard that Hertz was to buy 100k Tesla's, with 50k for an Uber rental scheme? Well, an LA Uber driver rented a TM3 (through Uber) and including charging costs, it costs her less to run, than fuelling her own ICEV. Plus her tips doubled.

An Uber driver says she more than doubled her monthly tips to $2,600 after swapping her Toyota Camry for a Tesla Model 3

Barnes told Bloomberg she swapped her Toyota for the Tesla because the cost of filling up the Toyota jumped from around $60 to $100.

She said it costs her around $450 a month to run the Tesla, including lease costs and charging, compared with around $600 for fueling the Toyota alone, per Bloomberg.

Martyn1981

I'm always interested in the Swedish results for quite a few reasons. They are very high PEV and BEV percentages, they seem to be the only country where PHEV's are a really significant percentage, and my BiL lives there and has a new PHEV, replacing the old PHEV company car. He lives in an apartment building with no on-site charging, which seems to be an issue in Sweden, for now. Though when he mentioned this to Wifey and I recently whilst visiting, she pulled out her phone, had a quick play, and found a charger right across the street from him.

Also I recall that till about a year ago, the EV support/subsidies were equal for all PEV's, but then they reduced the PHEV, and raised the BEV support.

The bottom third of the article is also interesting, looking at the comments from 'Mobility Sweden' which may be in denial about the transition from ICEV to BEV, suggesting that the 'Osborne Effect' may be kicking in.

Edit - And also, given the impact on Tesla exports from China this quarter, the article is making bold claims about the potential for Sweden in H2:

As mentioned above, I am expecting September’s plugin share to be in the 60% to 65% range, other things being equal, and above 70% in December.

Sweden’s Plugin EV Share Grows In June – Tesla Model Y Overall Bestseller

In June 2022 Sweden’s plugin electric vehicles took 55.1% market share, up from 49.4% YoY. BEVs grew share by over 31% YoY, whilst PHEVs reduced share slightly. Overall auto market volume, at 26,059 units, was 28% down YoY. Sweden’s best selling vehicle (of any powertrain) in May was the Tesla Model Y.

June’s combined plugin result of 55.1% consisted of 31.6% full battery electrics (BEVs), and 23.5% plugin hybrids (PHEVs). This compares to June 2021’s results of 24.1% and 25.3%, respectively. PHEVs have been relatively flat over the past two years, whilst BEVs have steadily grown share (see the long term trend lines in the graph below).

Martyn1981

Well that's scuppered my plans to buy a £1m ICE Ferrari in 2030.

EU’s electric vehicle drive leaves supercars at the back of the grid

The EU this week agreed draft legislation banning the sale of new petrol or diesel cars by 2035, ignoring a plea from Italy for a “Ferrari exception” to allow its supercar industry to continue making its petrol-powered products.

EricMears

Martyn1981 said:

Well that's scuppered my plans to buy a £1m ICE Ferrari in 2030.

'Secondhand' models should be around for many years to come.  They'd probably be in pretty good condition anyway but there's not likely to be any restriction on you having one completely refurbished before you start driving it.