Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Grumpy_chap

1961Nick said:

One of the key reasons that Tesla's direct selling model works, is because with virtually no options other than wheels & body colour, potential customers often don't need to visit a showroom to make a buying decision.

That is something I don't quite understand.  It may have worked when TESLA were the only EV in the village, but the EV competition is increasing and will continue to do so.

Through COVID, legacy manufacturers have tried to implement the "remote purchase" model for car, including used cars.

For me, though, a car is very much a "touchy-feely" item and need to experience the drive before committing.  A car is a substantial expense, whether outright purchase or finance, so well outside the range of "take a punt" and "it'll do" approach that I might apply to a TV or mobile phone or other short-lived electronics.

I recently sat in a couple of fairly expensive (£56k and £61k) EV and they were "nice" but really, to me, lacked any "wow" factor that inspires a purchase or further action on my part. Someone else might sit in the same car and get the "wow" factor and that then becomes a "must have" for that person.

I may be a minority but I would have thought that most people deciding to pay £50k upwards (or, to be honest, even £5k or £10k) on a car would want to see it, touch it, feel it, drive it before making a decision.  Even more so now as choosing between a £50k TESLA EV, BMW EV or VAG EV is not just down to reviewing the specifications and making a "head" decision.  Indeed, VAG have excelled in adapting virtually identical ICE cars to support massively different brands - if the whole thing is to become a purely "head" decision based upon harsh analysis of data, the variance of brands would have to cease.

Martyn1981

Hiya, Grumpy, Nick did say customers 'often don't need to visit a showroom'. For the others there is nothing stopping them popping to a showroom for a good look around, and of course booking a test drive, where they literally give you the car to drive away with (on your own) for 30-60mins.

Grumpy_chap

Martyn1981 said:

Hiya, Grumpy, Nick did say customers 'often don't need to visit a showroom'. For the others there is nothing stopping them popping to a showroom for a good look around, and of course booking a test drive, where they literally give you the car to drive away with (on your own) for 30-60mins.

Thanks - I was just trying to understand how many customers buy a car without visiting a showroom?
The figure may be hard to confirm as some customers will visit the showroom, and then do the final "selections" from home and buy online.
Obviously, this is not really an EV question - it is a car question.

Martyn1981

Could be good news for BEV's. The EU is to review how PHEV emissions are calculated, as in reality they are being driven in leccy mode far less than suggested, so emissions 3-5x higher.

I'd suspect/suggest for those on this board, PHEV's make more sense and would be driven mostly in leccy mode. In fact I'd guess that folk on the Motoring board would perform well above average, since folk who engage in a subject generally have more interest and understanding. But sadly for the average driver, emission reductions have not been as high as expected.

Probably doesn't matter too much, PHEV sales (as a percentage) seem to have flattened/fallen, and fuel cost rises will impact their choice and use. Plus these changes are years away, but every little helps.

I once read a fun, but interesting suggestion in an article's comment section. The poster suggested that for PHEV's and Rx's, the engine hp should be linked to the battery size. The smaller the battery, the smaller the engine, making petrol use less fun, even a chore. Obviously tongue-in-cheek but imagine a 5hp/kWh rule to be classed as PHEV. If the PHEV only had a 10kWh battery, then you only get a 50hp engine ..... you'd want to charge the battery then, or for a big heavy SUV, perhaps get out and walk.  

EU To End Undercounting Of Plug-In Hybrid Emissions

The climate ratings of plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) are set to become a lot more realistic after the EU agreed today to assess their CO2 emissions based on how much they actually emit on the road. Green group Transport & Environment (T&E), which has campaigned for years to highlight the true impact of “fake” electric vehicles, said the new system would end the emissions scandal that is misleading consumers and allowing carmakers to significantly weaken their CO2 targets.

Currently, regulators assume PHEVs are driven far more in electric mode than is actually the case, leading to unrealistically low emissions ratings. From 2025, the EU will significantly reduce the so-called utility factors, which is the share of electric driving that regulators use for calculating CO2 emissions of PHEVs. From 2027, the utility factors of plug-in hybrids will be fully aligned with how they are driven in the real world.

The climate ratings of plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) are set to become a lot more realistic after the EU agreed today to assess their CO2 emissions based on how much they actually emit on the road. Green group Transport & Environment (T&E), which has campaigned for years to highlight the true impact of “fake” electric vehicles, said the new system would end the emissions scandal that is misleading consumers and allowing carmakers to significantly weaken their CO2 targets.

Currently, regulators assume PHEVs are driven far more in electric mode than is actually the case, leading to unrealistically low emissions ratings. From 2025, the EU will significantly reduce the so-called utility factors, which is the share of electric driving that regulators use for calculating CO2 emissions of PHEVs. From 2027, the utility factors of plug-in hybrids will be fully aligned with how they are driven in the real world.

michaels

Grumpy_chap said:

1961Nick said:

One of the key reasons that Tesla's direct selling model works, is because with virtually no options other than wheels & body colour, potential customers often don't need to visit a showroom to make a buying decision.

That is something I don't quite understand.  It may have worked when TESLA were the only EV in the village, but the EV competition is increasing and will continue to do so.

Through COVID, legacy manufacturers have tried to implement the "remote purchase" model for car, including used cars.

For me, though, a car is very much a "touchy-feely" item and need to experience the drive before committing.  A car is a substantial expense, whether outright purchase or finance, so well outside the range of "take a punt" and "it'll do" approach that I might apply to a TV or mobile phone or other short-lived electronics.

I recently sat in a couple of fairly expensive (£56k and £61k) EV and they were "nice" but really, to me, lacked any "wow" factor that inspires a purchase or further action on my part. Someone else might sit in the same car and get the "wow" factor and that then becomes a "must have" for that person.

I may be a minority but I would have thought that most people deciding to pay £50k upwards (or, to be honest, even £5k or £10k) on a car would want to see it, touch it, feel it, drive it before making a decision.  Even more so now as choosing between a £50k TESLA EV, BMW EV or VAG EV is not just down to reviewing the specifications and making a "head" decision.  Indeed, VAG have excelled in adapting virtually identical ICE cars to support massively different brands - if the whole thing is to become a purely "head" decision based upon harsh analysis of data, the variance of brands would have to cease.

I bought a brand new EV in 2015 without even having seen one in the flesh as the cost made sense.  But then I'm an A to B kind of person and £130 per month didn't seem like too much of a punt.

Martyn1981

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Hiya, Grumpy, Nick did say customers 'often don't need to visit a showroom'. For the others there is nothing stopping them popping to a showroom for a good look around, and of course booking a test drive, where they literally give you the car to drive away with (on your own) for 30-60mins.

Thanks - I was just trying to understand how many customers buy a car without visiting a showroom?
The figure may be hard to confirm as some customers will visit the showroom, and then do the final "selections" from home and buy online.
Obviously, this is not really an EV question - it is a car question.

Yep, Wifey and I visited the Tesla showroom in Bristol (before Cardiff opened). We had a good nose around, and took a performance TM3 for a drive (scary power). In the store I asked about ordering info, and the staff said they could help, but that we were better off doing it at home where we have more time to think and ponder. 

Back then, there was one small rule, which has changed now, but you used to have the right to simply change your mind within 7 days of getting the car, and return it, but if you'd had a test drive before ordering, then you lost that right. 

orrery

I suspect that Tesla will now see a much tougher market going forwards, unless they come out with something spectacular. People who are paying those prices are likely to prefer an Audi, Merc, BMW etc and the more cost competitive end of the market will be dominated by the Chinese suppliers. I can't see where Tesla will go.

JKenH

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

1961Nick said:

JKenH said:

michaels said:

JKenH said:

Supply shortages shackle new car market performance

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2022/07/supply-shortages-shackle-new-car-market-performance/

4k Model Y and about 1700 M 3  Pretty carp Q for Tesla by recent standards but not surprising given Shanghai shutdown.  Could Tesla become the UK best selling car maker for a quarter or even 12 months rolling?!

Could Tesla make the best selling UK car for a quarter or 12 months? Possibly 
Could Tesla become the UK best selling car maker for a quarter or even 12 months rolling? Probably  not, at least not this year. Ford have sold over 60k cars compared to Tesla’s 22k YTD so there’s a lot of catching up for Tesla to do.  Even had they matched their Q1 sales in Q2 Tesla would still only be around half Ford’s figure YTD. Kia is quite close to Ford though. 

With an entry level price of £48,490 it would be virtually impossible for Tesla to be the UK's best selling car in a calendar year. If Tesla ever get round to making the £25,000 hatchback (probably nearer £30K) then they could well have a spell at number1... quarterly probably & annually possibly.

I was just editing my post while you were typing to make a similar point. GM have announced 30 new EVs by 2025 and Toyota will have 30 EVs in their range by 2030. Perhaps none will sell half as well as the top selling Tesla but it is the sheer breadth of the ranges that will be Tesla’s competition, not individual models.

I have a feeling that legacy auto's blueprint of a huge range of vehicles with dozens of variants might have become unsustainable if they want to be competitive. VAG are certainly indicating that their range will be streamlined in the BEV future. 2 pages of options could also become a thing of the past... or become software activated by subscription or one off payment?

One of the key reasons that Tesla's direct selling model works, is because with virtually no options other than wheels & body colour, potential customers often don't need to visit a showroom to make a buying decision. Tesla therefore not only save the cost of manufacturing umpteen variants, they also avoid the running costs of operating the dealership model. It's not so much 'no frills' it's more a case of 'all frills are standard'.

I can see the significant manufacturing efficiencies in a one size fits all approach. However I am quite particular about a few things in my cars,  for instance cloth seats. The reason I selected the n-Connecta over the Tekna version of the Leaf was that it had cloth seats. Tesla doesn’t do cloth seats or Apple CarPlay so it potentially limits its market. It’s not a problem at the moment as demand exceeds production capability but that situation may not exist for ever.

Martyn1981

Short update on Janus and their BEV conversion of trucks in Australia, with swappable batteries.

Janus Electric Trucks Update

It was a pleasure to catch up with Lex Forsythe, co-founder of Janus Electric trucks at the Noosa EV Expo. He informed me that the company now has 5 converted semis on the road, with 60 more booked to be transformed from diesel to battery electric, and over 150 expressions of interest. We didn’t have a lot of time to talk as he was mobbed by excited enquirers. However, I was able to listen to him in the speakers’ tent later. A lot has happened since we last talked.

In Australia, 80% of trucks run within 400 km of a capital city. The plan is to electrify from Cairns to Adelaide with battery swap stations. Australia uses 32 billion litres of diesel per year. One quarter of that goes into trucking. 100% is imported. Electrifying trucks will aid energy security. Not only that, but large battery swap stations can fill during the middle of the day and then use any excess energy to help stabilize the grid.

1961Nick

Martyn1981 said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Martyn1981 said:

Hiya, Grumpy, Nick did say customers 'often don't need to visit a showroom'. For the others there is nothing stopping them popping to a showroom for a good look around, and of course booking a test drive, where they literally give you the car to drive away with (on your own) for 30-60mins.

Thanks - I was just trying to understand how many customers buy a car without visiting a showroom?
The figure may be hard to confirm as some customers will visit the showroom, and then do the final "selections" from home and buy online.
Obviously, this is not really an EV question - it is a car question.

Yep, Wifey and I visited the Tesla showroom in Bristol (before Cardiff opened). We had a good nose around, and took a performance TM3 for a drive (scary power). In the store I asked about ordering info, and the staff said they could help, but that we were better off doing it at home where we have more time to think and ponder. 

Back then, there was one small rule, which has changed now, but you used to have the right to simply change your mind within 7 days of getting the car, and return it, but if you'd had a test drive before ordering, then you lost that right. 

Our TM3 is the only vehicle I have ever bought without a showroom visit & a test drive. It's also the most expensive vehicle. I'm definitely a 'petrol head' rather than an A to B motorist & I still didn't feel the need for a touchy feely experience before buying. I guess that with an ICE you need to feel the power, the torque & the delivery of that power to know what you're getting. One look at the figures for a TM3P & you know you're not going to be disappointed!

The biggest shock to the senses of the TM3 is the lack of anything in the cabin apart from the touchscreen. It initially gives you the impression that you've paid a lot of money for something that's rather basic. After a few weeks you realise that's far from the truth & a Tesla probably has more kit than anything you've owned before. The difference is that there isn't a little button to tell everyone it's got heated rear seats or whatever. After 1 year of ownership the only thing I still miss is an instrument binnacle or a HUD. The touchscreen is probably fine for the under 40's, but it can be a challenge for a varifocal wearing 60 year old with an astigmatism living in a village served entirely by bumpy B roads... some of those buttons are tiny!.