Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

2024 Mercedes C-Class EV spearheads brand's electric rebirth

Mercedes-Benz will rapidly expand its EV line-up in the coming years by ushering in electric options in crucial new segments and introducing a range of new platforms with unprecedented range and performance capabilities.

In Autocar magazine there are far more details of the forthcoming models which, if production can match aspirations, could be a serious competitor to Tesla in the executive class.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2024-mercedes-c-class-ev-spearheads-brands-electric-rebirth

Edit: 

Second article on same topic

When we think of pioneers of the mass-produced EV, it’s General Motors, Tesla, Nissan and BMW that will be pictured next to that entry in the eventual encyclopedia of the 21st century – but it looks like it will be Mercedes that finally kicks the concept of mass EV adoption firmly into the realm of the feasible.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/technology/opinion-mercedes-evs-will-get-you-home-range

Martyn1981

Fun tool to compare EV's to petrol or diesel (or HEV's/PHEV's). This is CO2, not localised pollution.

I played, aiming to compare a 2022 TM3 (China made battery), with a large car (BMW 3 series), on the UK grid and got approx 30k km's to 'beat' a petrol, ~33k for a diesel, and ~40k for a PHEV.

Estimate for a 2030 production BEV v's petrol is about 22k km's.

How clean are electric cars?

Doc's explaining the analysis can be downloaded, see links on RHS.

zeupater

JKenH said:

2024 Mercedes C-Class EV spearheads brand's electric rebirth

Mercedes-Benz will rapidly expand its EV line-up in the coming years by ushering in electric options in crucial new segments and introducing a range of new platforms with unprecedented range and performance capabilities.

In Autocar magazine there are far more details of the forthcoming models which, if production can match aspirations, could be a serious competitor to Tesla in the executive class.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2024-mercedes-c-class-ev-spearheads-brands-electric-rebirth

Edit: 

Second article on same topic

When we think of pioneers of the mass-produced EV, it’s General Motors, Tesla, Nissan and BMW that will be pictured next to that entry in the eventual encyclopedia of the 21st century – but it looks like it will be Mercedes that finally kicks the concept of mass EV adoption firmly into the realm of the feasible.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/technology/opinion-mercedes-evs-will-get-you-home-range

Hi

Just looks like more of the same old  'Tesla killer' news to me .... the question, as always, really revolves around how legacy manufacturers manage & finance their move across to EVs and, once done & volume is achieved, whether they remain anywhere near profitable enough to thrive.

Mercedes, like most others, seem to have a considerable weight of long term debt ... that's multiples of their cash on hand, so whatever they're looking to invest in (non-incremental) R&D and plant efficiency will need to be borrowed .... just at the time that it looks like major economies will soon be going through a recession .... the time to have invested in a new roof whilst the sun was shining seems to have passed & those that haven't addressed the (existing) market sector threat of both far-eastern & Tesla build volumes (experience & economies of scale) look like their prospects are going to suffer more than a little dampness ...

Some (Mercedes included?) may be in better positions than others, but they all seem to have been kicking the can down the road & waiting to see how the market reacts & develops for far too long, however, the likes of BMW & Mercedes in particular have been stunningly remiss in not addressing their dominance in their own market sector ... as it is, the article says it all when it states that they 'could be a serious competitor to Tesla in the executive class' (note 'if' the caveat proceeding this!), effectively stating that they're no longer front runners in their own sector .... all at the same time as their perceived sector competition (Tesla) are on track to be matching/exceeding Mercedes daily total build quantities by this year end ... is someone not only being allowed to eat their lunch, but looking to follow up with dinner too? ... 

HTH - Z     

JKenH

zeupater said:

JKenH said:

2024 Mercedes C-Class EV spearheads brand's electric rebirth

Mercedes-Benz will rapidly expand its EV line-up in the coming years by ushering in electric options in crucial new segments and introducing a range of new platforms with unprecedented range and performance capabilities.

In Autocar magazine there are far more details of the forthcoming models which, if production can match aspirations, could be a serious competitor to Tesla in the executive class.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2024-mercedes-c-class-ev-spearheads-brands-electric-rebirth

Edit: 

Second article on same topic

When we think of pioneers of the mass-produced EV, it’s General Motors, Tesla, Nissan and BMW that will be pictured next to that entry in the eventual encyclopedia of the 21st century – but it looks like it will be Mercedes that finally kicks the concept of mass EV adoption firmly into the realm of the feasible.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/technology/opinion-mercedes-evs-will-get-you-home-range

Hi

Just looks like more of the same old  'Tesla killer' news to me .... the question, as always, really revolves around how legacy manufacturers manage & finance their move across to EVs and, once done & volume is achieved, whether they remain anywhere near profitable enough to thrive.

Mercedes, like most others, seem to have a considerable weight of long term debt ... that's multiples of their cash on hand, so whatever they're looking to invest in (non-incremental) R&D and plant efficiency will need to be borrowed .... just at the time that it looks like major economies will soon be going through a recession .... the time to have invested in a new roof whilst the sun was shining seems to have passed & those that haven't addressed the (existing) market sector threat of both far-eastern & Tesla build volumes (experience & economies of scale) look like their prospects are going to suffer more than a little dampness ...

Some (Mercedes included?) may be in better positions than others, but they all seem to have been kicking the can down the road & waiting to see how the market reacts & develops for far too long, however, the likes of BMW & Mercedes in particular have been stunningly remiss in not addressing their dominance in their own market sector ... as it is, the article says it all when it states that they 'could be a serious competitor to Tesla in the executive class' (note 'if' the caveat proceeding this!), effectively stating that they're no longer front runners in their own sector .... all at the same time as their perceived sector competition (Tesla) are on track to be matching/exceeding Mercedes daily total build quantities by this year end ... is someone not only being allowed to eat their lunch, but looking to follow up with dinner too? ... 

HTH - Z     

They were my thoughts (highlighted in bold above) unfortunately, not Autocar’s.

michaels

This is where electric vehicle adoption is headed between 2022 and 2025 (electrek.co)

Suggestion from EY that EVs will be 39% in China in 2025 and 40-50% in Europe

zeupater

JKenH said:

zeupater said:

JKenH said:

2024 Mercedes C-Class EV spearheads brand's electric rebirth

Mercedes-Benz will rapidly expand its EV line-up in the coming years by ushering in electric options in crucial new segments and introducing a range of new platforms with unprecedented range and performance capabilities.

...

Hi

Just looks like more of the same old  'Tesla killer' news to me .... the question, as always, really revolves around how legacy manufacturers manage & finance their move across to EVs and, once done & volume is achieved, whether they remain anywhere near profitable enough to thrive.

Mercedes, like most others, seem to have a considerable weight of long term debt ... that's multiples of their cash on hand, so whatever they're looking to invest in (non-incremental) R&D and plant efficiency will need to be borrowed .... just at the time that it looks like major economies will soon be going through a recession .... the time to have invested in a new roof whilst the sun was shining seems to have passed & those that haven't addressed the (existing) market sector threat of both far-eastern & Tesla build volumes (experience & economies of scale) look like their prospects are going to suffer more than a little dampness ...

Some (Mercedes included?) may be in better positions than others, but they all seem to have been kicking the can down the road & waiting to see how the market reacts & develops for far too long, however, the likes of BMW & Mercedes in particular have been stunningly remiss in not addressing their dominance in their own market sector ... as it is, the article says it all when it states that they 'could be a serious competitor to Tesla in the executive class' (note 'if' the caveat proceeding this!), effectively stating that they're no longer front runners in their own sector .... all at the same time as their perceived sector competition (Tesla) are on track to be matching/exceeding Mercedes daily total build quantities by this year end ... is someone not only being allowed to eat their lunch, but looking to follow up with dinner too? ... 

HTH - Z     

They were my thoughts (highlighted in bold above) unfortunately, not Autocar’s.

Hi

Okay, but that doesn't really change anything ... the subtitle above really says it all, looks like they're not concentrating on developing a model with volume & using that to develop/drive the essential cost efficiencies for survival, but designing more & more platforms & models with a long term view as opposed to having something to maintain the short/medium term revenue stream which is essential to prevent any/all competition eating their lunch .... it's no longer a case of the EV competition to ICE is coming - it's time to realise that it's already here in the form of Tesla's current ~1million EV units/year (soon to be ~2million with existing plant!) not consisting of additional sales, but consuming total passenger vehicle market share in the very sector that Mercedes & BMW operate, which should really be scary to their senior management teams considering their past misplaced assumptions on Tesla's (& far eastern manufacturers') timelines to achieve scale.

I have no particular issues with legacy auto, but have a very strong feeling that we've already seen the volume peak of the likes of BMW & Mercedes as they operate in the very price/quality segment that BEVs need(ed) to target to achieve the necessary scale to drive cost/price down, so having squandered years of developing EV volume manufacturing it's probably time to panic & try to survive with fewer models now as opposed to continue to think that offering a wide range of models at some time in the future (described as 'in the coming years') is a workable solution.          

HTH - Z ...

JKenH

How global raw materials' costs are affecting EV prices

Electric cars are getting more expensive as the cost of materials for batteries spirals

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-tech%2C-development-and-manufacturing/how-global-raw-materials-costs-are-affecting

Martyn1981

zeupater said:

I have no particular issues with legacy auto, but have a very strong feeling that we've already seen the volume peak of the likes of BMW & Mercedes as they operate in the very price/quality segment that BEVs need(ed) to target to achieve the necessary scale to drive cost/price down, so having squandered years of developing EV volume manufacturing it's probably time to panic & try to survive with fewer models now as opposed to continue to think that offering a wide range of models at some time in the future (described as 'in the coming years') is a workable solution.          

HTH - Z ...

Timely news from Tesla, who just received another massive Giga-Press from IDRA, this time for the Cybertruck. These press' allow entire substructures to be cast, rather than put together from multiple parts. The two cast pieces for the Model Y replace about 70 parts each, plus the people, machines, and line space/time to assemble them. Sandy Munro suggested that these presses only make financial sense when production of a model, at each factory (with a press installed), exceeds 100k pa.

I suspect we will see less models in the future, certainly the number of platforms they are built off, for legacy auto as they try to compete with the new BEV only competition, and the Chinese.

Watch IDRA Assemble Tesla Cybertruck's 9,000-Ton Giga Press

Grumpy_chap

JKenH said:

2024 Mercedes C-Class EV spearheads brand's electric rebirth

A big part of the success on this will be the pricing and differential from ICE equivalent.

I have noted earlier in this thread that the price difference between the S-Class and the EQS is narrow - it was around £10k.  Plus, anyone in the market for a £100k car can likely resource the uplift.  That then means the pay-back can be realised and total cost of ownership will be lower.  There is also the fact that individuals choosing a £100k car will be more likely to understand and consider pay-back returns, or have a business advisor / Accountant to advise them.

That same narrow price delta is not the case for the E-Class / EQS comparison.  From around £42k versus £75k.  That is a substantial amount to make up in pay-back terms.  If an ICE has a fuel cost 15 pence per mile and EV 5 pence per mile, it is a saving of 10 pence per mile, so a horrendous distance to travel to make the pay-back work (I quickly calculated 300k miles, but think I may have made a mistake £30k = 3,000,000 pence divide by 10 = 300,000).  I'd like to think that can't possibly be correct.

Regardless, if I had the money, I would by an EQE (or an EQS for that matter).  I don't have the money though. 

If I was buying a new car now, my default choice would be a Mondeo, I like them and for £30k I could get the all-singing, all-dancing model with all the bells and all the whistles.  I would consider the E-Class as an alternative option.  Moving to an EQE would be too large a jump - I'd never have £70k to spend and even doubt that I'd ever have the ability to take on that kind of level as finance.

When I buy a car, I buy and run until it dies, so capital spend is critical.  However, for those considering the "monthlies" where various tricks, smoke & mirrors can apply, can those that would be taking a £30k - £40k car loan / PCP really gain the finance for a £70k alternative?  Is it good to encourage even more debt in this way?

The C-Class is currently at a starting point of just under £40k.  Competitive EV alternatives seem to be £55k kind of level if the TM3LR / BMW i4 is an appropriate pick of alternatives.  This is still challenging for the pay-back position, total cost of ownership and still presents the challenge as to whether the individual buying the C-Class can resource or finance the extra £15k.  Bearing in mind many people seem to borrow far more than they ever sensibly should in any case for car purchase.

Fortunately, I don't need to buy a car in the short-term as I have a very low mileage for the time being until whenever I return to work in an office.

FWIW - I don't actually like the styling of the C-Class EV shown in the linked articles.  I do like the current C-Class / E-Class and the EQE / EQS so maybe the design will be more modest by the time the model is launched.  For all my comments above, if the car came in at <£50k for a suitable range I'd give serious consideration.

Martyn1981

US news, but I thought quite eye-opening, the new Chevy Bolt, post battery fire issues and recalls, is to launch at a lower, and I'd say, great price given it's range.

One downside, it may not be a long range hauler, as it only charges at 50kW and even that rate tapers down from about 45% SOC. But still a great price.

2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV/EUV Prices Confirmed: Much Lower Than 2022

Chevrolet announced today pricing of the new 2023 model year Bolt EV and Bolt EUV duo, which happens to be significantly lower than before.

The 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV starts at $26,595, while the 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EUV starts at $28,195 (both prices includes Dealer Freight Charges of $995).

That's a big reduction of $5,900 in the case of the Bolt EV and $6,300 in the case of the Bolt EUV.

The general specs of the Bolts remain the same, including the 65 kWh battery and 150 kW electric motor. The GM-estimated range is respectively 259 miles (417 km) for the Bolt EV and 247 miles (397 km) for the Bolt EUV.