Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Martyn1981

Always good to push back on FUD, but this time 'pushing' might not do justice to the backside kicking that this nonsense earned.

UK Environment Secretary Proven Wrong On EV Tires & Brake Pollution

UK Environment Secretary George Eustice made some notable comments recently that got picked up by The Daily Mail. These comments were about EVs, that they produce more fine particulate matter through brake and tire pollution than traditional ICE vehicles. Speaking to MPs on the Commons’ environment, food, and rural affairs committee last month, UK Environment Secretary George Eustice claimed that fine particulate matter might be worse with EVs due to their weight, The Daily Mail reported.

“In EVs, the overwhelming majority of braking can be done via regenerative braking. This is where the electric motor works in reverse, converting kinetic energy from the moving vehicle into electricity, which is used to charge the battery when slowing down. This not only reduces the use of the mechanical brake discs and pads, but adds more range to the vehicle, too.

“A typical 16” family car tyre weighs around 9 kg, so four of them on a vehicle gives a total weight of 36 kg. That’s not just the tread, but the full tyres. If the car really did shed 9.28 grams of particulate matter per mile from the tyres, then the car tyres would physically have disappeared — and the car would be running on its alloys — in less than 4,000 miles.

“In reality, the tread of a tyre is about 35% of the tyre’s total weight, so the tyres would be bald in less than 1,358 miles, or two months’ worth of driving for the average UK driver.

michaels

Martyn1981 said:

Always good to push back on FUD, but this time 'pushing' might not do justice to the backside kicking that this nonsense earned.

UK Environment Secretary Proven Wrong On EV Tires & Brake Pollution

UK Environment Secretary George Eustice made some notable comments recently that got picked up by The Daily Mail. These comments were about EVs, that they produce more fine particulate matter through brake and tire pollution than traditional ICE vehicles. Speaking to MPs on the Commons’ environment, food, and rural affairs committee last month, UK Environment Secretary George Eustice claimed that fine particulate matter might be worse with EVs due to their weight, The Daily Mail reported.

“In EVs, the overwhelming majority of braking can be done via regenerative braking. This is where the electric motor works in reverse, converting kinetic energy from the moving vehicle into electricity, which is used to charge the battery when slowing down. This not only reduces the use of the mechanical brake discs and pads, but adds more range to the vehicle, too.

“A typical 16” family car tyre weighs around 9 kg, so four of them on a vehicle gives a total weight of 36 kg. That’s not just the tread, but the full tyres. If the car really did shed 9.28 grams of particulate matter per mile from the tyres, then the car tyres would physically have disappeared — and the car would be running on its alloys — in less than 4,000 miles.

“In reality, the tread of a tyre is about 35% of the tyre’s total weight, so the tyres would be bald in less than 1,358 miles, or two months’ worth of driving for the average UK driver.

What I find interesting though is that the minister was promoting this FUD - is it the department that are feeding it to him or industry lobbyists?

Martyn1981

What's the difference between vows and promises?

A vow a solemn promise - like an oath, which you take from heart. For example, I vow to stand beside you, every step of the way. On the other hand, promise means giving an assurance to do something.

Well that's good news then, what could possibly go wrong with a solemn promise from this Gov? But joking aside, sounds like good news, but 2030 ............  hmmmm 2025 would be better, and have a chance of getting ahead of the BEV rollout curve.

UK government vows 10-fold increase in electric car chargers by 2030

The UK government has set a new target to increase the number of electric car chargers more than ten times to 300,000 by 2030 after heavy criticism that the rollout of public infrastructure is too slow to match rapid growth in sales.

The Department for Transport (DfT) said it would invest an extra £450m to do so, alongside hefty sums of private capital. Sales of new cars and vans with petrol and diesel engines will be banned from 2030.

There were 420,000 pure-electric cars on UK roads at the end of February, according to the comparison website Next Green Car. There were, however, only 29,600 public charge points in the UK on 1 March, according to data company Zap-Map.

shinytop

And this

https://inews.co.uk/news/electric-cars-contactless-payments-charge-points-ev-revolution-1538294

"To improve customers’ experience, ministers plan to impose requirements on charge point operators to allow all drivers to pay with contactless payment, compare the price of charging between networks, and to easily find nearby charge points. Charge point operators will also have to make sure chargers are working 99 per cent of the time."

That definitely gets my vote and will be a factor for me in deciding when to get an EV.

Grumpy_chap

Well, I put a note in this thread a short while back mentioning that the Mercedes EQS was competitive capital outlay compared to the S-Class.

This week, Mercedes have announced pricing for the EQE at "from £76k".  That is a substantial uplift compared to the E-Class at "from £42k".  Quite a shame as I was hoping the EQE would be around the £50k mark, similar to BMW i4 and TM3LR.

Someone might do a payback calculation to show that the EQE is still good value at life-cycle cost, but that becomes moot if you are never going to have the initial extra £30k to start the process.

orrery

Grumpy_chap said:
Someone might do a payback calculation to show that the EQE is still good value at life-cycle cost, but that becomes moot if you are never going to have the initial extra £30k to start the process.

It might work out on a PCP, as there may be an expectation of a higher residual value.

Grumpy_chap

I gave some thought to the E-Class / EQE comparison.

A customer chooses an E-Class "from £42K" with some nice options, so it lands at £50k.
Premium VED is £500 for 5 years, £2.5k.
Followed by 10 years VED at £160 = £1.6k
So far committed to £55k over 15 years vehicle life.

Fuel, say 45 mpg diesel at £1.80 per litre
£8.30 per gallon
18 pence per mile for fuel.

£20k brings to break even with the EQE version just for capital cost.
£20k / 18 pence per mile = 110k miles

PCP / lease tricks and company car tax may work for the first owner but someone, somewhere has to meet this uplift across the life of the vehicle.  The delta of £25k is too great to support the mass conversion to EV.  Plus, that is using interpretations that would work towards making the EV become more favourable.

JKenH

There is talk of road pricing coming in to replace VED and fuel duty as the Exchequer needs to make up the revenue it is losing on EVs. That might not happen for a while though.

The big advantage of EVs financially is where a company either runs the vehicle as a company car or provides a salary sacrifice scheme. 

JKenH

Grumpy_chap said:

PCP / lease tricks and company car tax may work for the first owner but someone, somewhere has to meet this uplift across the life of the vehicle.  The delta of £25k is too great to support the mass conversion to EV.  Plus, that is using interpretations that would work towards making the EV become more favourable.

This has been troubling me for some while as everybody now seems able to afford premium marques on PCP or lease because of the higher residual values. Once upon a time fleets were made up of Vauxhalls and Fords but now you are more likely to see Mercs, Audis and BMWs. Ditto with the private purchaser buying on PCP. 

For this to work it relies on used car buyers being prepared to shell out extra for a premium brand which so far they seem willing to do. With the premium brands though come premium parts prices and you would expect the bubble to burst sometime soon. Some people were expecting this to happen around 2020 then COVID came to the rescue and the shortage of new vehicles is keeping used prices high so it will go on a little longer.

Pre COVID there were huge discounts available on some premium brand vehicles. Back in 2015 I got around 30% discount on a new Mercedes and I think discounts of around 40% were available on some S Class models (if not new, then on pre registered models). Once the current supply crisis is over then those sort of discounts will reappear on less popular ICE models.

orrery

JKenH said:

Once the current supply crisis is over then those sort of discounts will reappear on less popular ICE models.

... and as we approach a more mature EV market, we'll see routine discounts appear there too, but this may take some while.

There are a lot of things that we just can't factor in, because we just don't know. What will happen to s/h and residual prices of ICE and EVs as we approach 2030? We may see ICE prices firm up, as people dash to grab an ICE before the deadline, but we may have already started to see ICE prices fall as garages close and petrol prices start to climb.

I've just got an Enyaq on a 4 year PCP, so that will go back as s/h in 2026, so these dates are approaching fast.