Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

QrizB

JKenH said:

If you put your car on to charge here the marginal generation would be coming from coal at 937gCO2\kWh, or around 200gCO2/km.

But is that true?

My understanding (from school, many years ago) is that coal plants aren't very good at demand-following, so once you've stoked one you're pretty much committed to it. Gas turbines are much better at ramping up and down.

Which makes me think that the coal generation is baked in and it will be gas that generates the extra 7kW when you plug in your car.

Superscrooge

https://electrek.co/2022/03/30/tesla-open-supercharger-network-all-ev-owners-uk/?fbclid=IwAR2XWywfiExwj2ZS5L2YPUeQ-jApd6GN1erjGj77aJKiPiwFmgJYu1552Pk
Tesla to open Supercharger network within weeks or months?  

JKenH

Coal is the last thing we call on so it is the marginal generator. If demand was less then we wouldn’t be needing the coal.

I’m not saying that every time someone plugs their car of a kettle in someone in a power station puts another shovel of coal in. There would just be a very minor adjustment to frequency and/or voltage but we can’t  pretend when we are burning coal that cumulatively it doesn’t have an impact when we all plug in our cars kettles etc. 

QrizB

JKenH said:

Coal is the last thing we call on so it is the marginal generator. If demand was less then we wouldn’t be needing the coal.

OK, let's look at that bit.

According to Drax (again, sorry) we've been burning coal continuously for the last couple of days, even overnight when there's less demand and spare gas capacity.

And over the weekend we were burning coal in the daytime but not at night, despite the weekend demand being lower than weekday and enough gas generating capacity to cover it all.

I don't have any insight into how the grid is balanced but it appears, to me at least, as though coal isn't currently "the last thing we call on".

paul991

quiet  often when we are  burning coal we  are still exporting usually to France and  Ireland as of today so  we need to look at this  internationally rather than just uk wide

Martyn1981

QrizB said:

JKenH said:

Coal is the last thing we call on so it is the marginal generator. If demand was less then we wouldn’t be needing the coal.

OK, let's look at that bit.

According to Drax (again, sorry) we've been burning coal continuously for the last couple of days, even overnight when there's less demand and spare gas capacity.

And over the weekend we were burning coal in the daytime but not at night, despite the weekend demand being lower than weekday and enough gas generating capacity to cover it all.

I don't have any insight into how the grid is balanced but it appears, to me at least, as though coal isn't currently "the last thing we call on".

The recent bump in coal burning may possibly be a way to reduce the average cost of leccy given the extremely high price of gas thanks to Mr Putin playing with the taps, and then invading Ukraine.

Best solution, switch to RE and BEV's as fast as possible to reduce the demand for oil and gas/coal. Wins for the environment, local pollution, costs and incredibly ....... world peace. That last bit was me practising for Miss World, but don't let the image of me in a bikini put you off your breakfast. 

Martyn1981

Always good to see cost confirmation for EV's. Now we just need more e-vans.

Electric Vans Cheaper Overall Than Diesel, Study Finds

Electric vans are cheaper overall than diesel vehicles, according to a new study of the total cost to buy and operate them in Europe. So, it’s no surprise that a survey of van buyers in Europe, also published today, finds that most want to go electric.

The average electric van is already 25% cheaper per km to own and operate today than the average diesel van, the study finds. It analyses six countries which account for 76% of new vans sold in Europe: France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Spain, and the UK.

But the supply of e-van models is lacking, which is why they account for only 3% of sales — lagging far behind battery electric cars (9%). Transport & Environment (T&E), which is publishing the report and survey, said the supply of electric vans will continue to fall short for the rest of the 2020s unless the EU’s proposed van CO2 targets are significantly increased.

The average electric van is already 25% cheaper per km to own and operate today than the average diesel van, the study finds. It analyses six countries which account for 76% of new vans sold in Europe: France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Spain, and the UK.

The survey, conducted in conjunction with the costs study to understand buyers’ behaviour, shows the European van market is ready to go electric. Over one-third (36%) of van fleets surveyed already have at least one electric van while almost another third (32%) plan to buy an e-van this year, according to the poll of 745 fleets across Europe by Dataforce for T&E. A further 16% are considering buying an e-van in the next five years.

Grumpy_chap

EV company cars benefit from attractive BIK for the user.

AIUI, EV company vans do not benefit in a similar way.  

This difference will make it less obvious for a small trader to choose an EV van.

CKhalvashi

QrizB said:

JKenH said:

If you put your car on to charge here the marginal generation would be coming from coal at 937gCO2\kWh, or around 200gCO2/km.

But is that true?

My understanding (from school, many years ago) is that coal plants aren't very good at demand-following, so once you've stoked one you're pretty much committed to it. Gas turbines are much better at ramping up and down.

Which makes me think that the coal generation is baked in and it will be gas that generates the extra 7kW when you plug in your car.

But (and I genuinely don't know the answer to this) how much electricity is wastage at non-peak times regularly enough to make a charger that can cut in/out (subject to reasonableness of course) through a 'smart grid' a far better option?

One other thing is clear though, we need a push of solar for residential properties and solar/wind for commercial properties, likely in a subsidised way, to ensure we are generating cleaner electricity.

Solar naturally mainly for commercial use during the day, with wind 24 hours as this is one element of weather to not sleep. Possibly with solar in domestic properties.

There is no reason why with additional infrastructure we can't as a world commit to a large scale reductions in emissions to a much greater extent than the reality is now. In addition to this, the sun is free.

1961Nick

I believe the majority of EV charging is done overnight when renewables are typically a high proportion of the energy mix.