Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

ABrass

It is the same tiresome stuff that lead to the alternative green energy thread.

ed110220

ABrass said:

It is the same tiresome stuff that lead to the alternative green energy thread.

Alternative reality more like

JKenH

ABrass said:

It is the same tiresome stuff that lead to the alternative green energy thread.

Reality can be quite tiresome if one is not used to dealing with it.

orrery

JKenH said:

But let’s have a look at the last sentence of your post that you charge overnight using leccy from your 100% renewables tariff. (I don’t know who your supplier is but I charge on Octopus Go Faster overnight which also claims to be 100% renewables). You go on to suggest we shouldn’t discuss that because it’s been done to death. But as you raised it maybe we should just have a look at it.

Aaaargh... so straight in to the same oil company playbook pointless argument that misrepresents what a 100% renewables tariff really is. We've done it to death.

We can't get 100% renewable energy, until our grid is powered by 100% renewable energy (with appropriate short, medium and long term storage), but even charging my EV with 100% coal is cleaner than running an ICE.

paul991

so  we are in a transition  phase with  2 very  large wind farms in the  north sea in the pipeline and multiple smaller renewable s coming on line were slowly  going in the right direction ,just look forward to the day when we are not breathing the pollution from diesel buses and lorries , you can split hairs on what time of day is  best to charge a ev but every ones  set up and use is  different

JKenH

Ah, yes the oil company playbook defence - again! When logic fails deflect. 

I am sorry but if you are going to make claims about charging your car on your 100% renewables tariff, which by your admission obviously doesn’t mean you charged your car on 100% renewable energy, you have to accept that someone will point out the fallacy. Now if an oil company said something like that, one might suggest that they were being disingenuous, greenwashing or even deliberately misleading the public but it is apparently fine for a renewables company to do so. 

By all means explain, for the benefit of those that perhaps aren’t aware, what exactly you did mean when you said you charged your car on your 100% renewables tariff (when in fact only around 5% of the electricity going into your car was from renewables). Perhaps it would have been useful to have done that at the time then there would have been no confusion.

JKenH

paul991 said:

so  we are in a transition  phase with  2 very  large wind farms in the  north sea in the pipeline and multiple smaller renewable s coming on line were slowly  going in the right direction ,just look forward to the day when we are not breathing the pollution from diesel buses and lorries , you can split hairs on what time of day is  best to charge a ev but every ones  set up and use is  different

I too will be pleased to see the back of smelly buses and lorries.

You may believe I am splitting hairs but people are making erroneous and/or exaggerated claims about their EVs and charging them and I am simply challenging them to be open and truthful about their CO2 emissions. Just because we have chosen to drive an EV doesn’t give us carte blanche to mislead. If one claims to charge one’s car on a 100% renewables tariff one should be prepared to explain what that actually means. At the moment what it seems to mean is that no matter how dirty the grid is when you decide to charge your car you can still make the 100% renewables tariff claim. This appears to absolve people of charging their car responsibly.

  

CKhalvashi

JKenH said:

paul991 said:

so  we are in a transition  phase with  2 very  large wind farms in the  north sea in the pipeline and multiple smaller renewable s coming on line were slowly  going in the right direction ,just look forward to the day when we are not breathing the pollution from diesel buses and lorries , you can split hairs on what time of day is  best to charge a ev but every ones  set up and use is  different

I too will be pleased to see the back of smelly buses and lorries.

You may believe I am splitting hairs but people are making erroneous and/or exaggerated claims about their EVs and charging them and I am simply challenging them to be open and truthful about their CO2 emissions. Just because we have chosen to drive an EV doesn’t give us carte blanche to mislead. If one claims to charge one’s car on a 100% renewables tariff one should be prepared to explain what that actually means. At the moment what it seems to mean is that no matter how dirty the grid is when you decide to charge your car you can still make the 100% renewables tariff claim. This appears to absolve people of charging their car responsibly.

  

My car has 0 tailpipe emissions, which should more than offset the emissions from manufacturing and the electricity generated to charge it, neither of which are necessarily in themselves zero emission. I would like to see a reduction of emissions overall on the grid to reduce this environmental footprint further.

It could also in the right circumstances lead to a decrease of emissions in towns and cities, especially when 2 different government agencies shut 2 major roads on the same weekend and the trains do not operate at all, thus leading to an increase in traffic.

I think that should be obvious to most, but this is how I see it.

zeupater

Hi All

Just an interjection of logic into the recent exchanges .... small effects, although often erroneously considered in isolation (for some reason-or-other), have a (historical) habit of somehow becoming cumulative - therefore appropriate scaling should be considered ....

.... for example from recent calculations, for CO2 grid emissions to be considered as being 200g/kWh the energy source mix must be averaged over a time-slice and appropriately apportioned. As the mix changes, so does the emission intensity ... this is exactly what should also be considered when time-shifting demand as emission intensity isn't constant throughout whatever time-slice is applied!. For example, the energy source mix would invariably be considerably different at 3:00am & 7:00pm even though short time-slices based around both of these times contribute towards larger time-slices such as daylight, nighttime, morning, afternoon, peak, off-peak, daily, weekly etc ...

Just some food for thought ... that's if the application of logic & critical thinking are readily available tools at one's disposal and there's a general willingness to recognise & employ them ...

HTH

Z

JKenH

CKhalvashi said:

JKenH said:

paul991 said:

so  we are in a transition  phase with  2 very  large wind farms in the  north sea in the pipeline and multiple smaller renewable s coming on line were slowly  going in the right direction ,just look forward to the day when we are not breathing the pollution from diesel buses and lorries , you can split hairs on what time of day is  best to charge a ev but every ones  set up and use is  different

I too will be pleased to see the back of smelly buses and lorries.

You may believe I am splitting hairs but people are making erroneous and/or exaggerated claims about their EVs and charging them and I am simply challenging them to be open and truthful about their CO2 emissions. Just because we have chosen to drive an EV doesn’t give us carte blanche to mislead. If one claims to charge one’s car on a 100% renewables tariff one should be prepared to explain what that actually means. At the moment what it seems to mean is that no matter how dirty the grid is when you decide to charge your car you can still make the 100% renewables tariff claim. This appears to absolve people of charging their car responsibly.

  

My car has 0 tailpipe emissions, which should more than offset the emissions from manufacturing and the electricity generated to charge it, neither of which are necessarily in themselves zero emission. I would like to see a reduction of emissions overall on the grid to reduce this environmental footprint further.

It could also in the right circumstances lead to a decrease of emissions in towns and cities, especially when 2 different government agencies shut 2 major roads on the same weekend and the trains do not operate at all, thus leading to an increase in traffic.

I think that should be obvious to most, but this is how I see it.

My car also has zero tailpipe emissions. I charge either on Octopus Go Faster or from my solar using a Zappi charger just like many others on here. How bad grid emissions can be sometimes was brought to my attention by another board contributor when generation CO2 levels in my region were 535g/kWh.  I feel we need to be aware that at times EV emissions can be significant, and being aware of that, we can do our best to minimise those, if indeed we care. Or we can hide behind our “100% renewables tariff”/home solar to pretend our EVs are indeed zero emissions (just as it says on the side of my Leaf).