Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

CKhalvashi

That'd do most people I think; 120mi drive, pop into the city for 5-6 hours, come back to a fully charged car to go home. It'd suit some longer distance commuters in the same way.

Rapid charging for sales reps etc could be essential also, but that won't be for the majority of people most of the time (currently averaging about 500mi/week and the car has never been rapid charged).

Hexane

CKhalvashi said:

pop into the city for 5-6 hours

hmm... something wrong with this phrase I think

Martyn1981

New York City is buying 7 'garbage' trucks, which tbf isn't a lot (they have a fleet of 6,000), but it comes after testing one for a while, so looks like they are pleased so far with the vehicle(s), and hopefully the numbers will grow rapidly ..... and dare we also hope that purchases of diesels will now be low to zero - time will tell.

NYC Buying 7 Electric Garbage Trucks

It’s one of those vehicle sectors that seems tailor made for a quick electric transformation. Garbage trucks run regular, predictable routes, meaning required range is straightforward and clear. The stop-start nature of garbage trucks is almost custom-made for EVs — no burning fuel as garbage trucks sit in front of one house after another lifting up garbage cans. Some of the electricity is recovered via regen braking in the middle of the short trips from neighbor to neighbor. The noise and pollution of the trucks don’t wake people up 30 minutes before their alarms. There isn’t the problem of drag quickly draining the battery on the highway because, for the most part, garbage trucks don’t hit the highway (even if many highways are littered with trash due to the “polite and respectful” nature of many humans).

NYC Dips Toes In The Electric Revolution

Unfortunately, you don’t see many orders for electric garbage trucks yet, and certainly not big orders. The good news this month is that the New York City Department of Sanitation (DSNY) is going to order 7 electric garbage trucks from Mack Trucks, a subsidiary of Volvo Group. In particular, they are the LR Electric model.

JKenH

CKhalvashi said:

That'd do most people I think; 120mi drive, pop into the city for 5-6 hours, come back to a fully charged car to go home. It'd suit some longer distance commuters in the same way.

Just how many 7/11kW chargers will be needed once we all go electric if people believe it is ok to leave their cars charging all day? The early risers will get used to a particular charging/parking spot and routinely plug in and leave it all day and anyone arriving to charge after the school run will be disappointed. How many of us who go to our local Tesco plug in whether we need it or not? Ok, it’s maybe only for 45 minutes (or longer if we are taking in other shops) but there aren’t many EVs on the road at the moment and often the spots are full. If everyone gets used to leaving their cars on public chargers for 5/6 hours we are going to need an awful lot of chargers.

While 7/11kW charging may seem like an ideal fit for Park and Ride sites, the reality is a lot of cars are going to be sitting on chargers with their batteries full. As BEV drivers we grumble about PHEVs taking up charging spaces but imagine how we will feel seeing a BMW330e or a Mitsubishi Outlander hogging a spot all day. 

Unless the pricing is made punitive to deter the charging hogs there is going to be a lot of frustration for those of us who turn up actually needing to charge. 

Martyn1981

Sounds more like a natural transition than a problem. You simply roll out more charger spaces over time, monitoring the take up rate of these spaces v's the reducing ICE spaces.

Can't imagine it'll be hard to install a central charger unit at the cross section of each set of four spaces, and with the ability to connect upto 4 EV's at 7kW each, or perhaps 2-11kW, depending on what demand turns out to be in the future.

Take up of charging spaces will depend on the rates charged for the leccy, and the ability of those using the park and ride locations to charge (more cheaply) at home.

A simple stepping stone for supermarkets would again be chargers in the center of 4 spaces, but only one charger connection (to start with), so effectively all spaces can be used by all vehicles, and over time the supply (and demand) will adapt to a changing world.

Solarchaser

JKenH said:

CKhalvashi said:

That'd do most people I think; 120mi drive, pop into the city for 5-6 hours, come back to a fully charged car to go home. It'd suit some longer distance commuters in the same way.

Just how many 7/11kW chargers will be needed once we all go electric if people believe it is ok to leave their cars charging all day? The early risers will get used to a particular charging/parking spot and routinely plug in and leave it all day and anyone arriving to charge after the school run will be disappointed. How many of us who go to our local Tesco plug in whether we need it or not? Ok, it’s maybe only for 45 minutes (or longer if we are taking in other shops) but there aren’t many EVs on the road at the moment and often the spots are full. If everyone gets used to leaving their cars on public chargers for 5/6 hours we are going to need an awful lot of chargers.

While 7/11kW charging may seem like an ideal fit for Park and Ride sites, the reality is a lot of cars are going to be sitting on chargers with their batteries full. As BEV drivers we grumble about PHEVs taking up charging spaces but imagine how we will feel seeing a BMW330e or a Mitsubishi Outlander hogging a spot all day. 

Unless the pricing is made punitive to deter the charging hogs there is going to be a lot of frustration for those of us who turn up actually needing to charge. 

I think you are forgetting the models of electricity demand which suggest that these standing chargers be used as a v2g source during the day, so even outlander can contribute to grid balancing.

There is a load of chargers there in the middle of the working day with no-one connected, yes in time they will fill up, but in time every single parking space will have a charger.

However for that investment to be supplied, you need the demand, so in fact people like yourself complaining about the chargers all being used will be part of the drive to accommodate more chargers.... well in cities that demand follow anyway.
Places like Stirling and Dundee have clearly decided to plan for the future instead of waiting for the complaints.

And don't forget the latest daily express 🙄 headlines state that an independent Scotland would be electrically cut off from England, so we will need lots of plugged in EVs to sup up all that plentiful leccy 🤪

JKenH

This article comparing public funding for chargers reveals that Scotland is receiving 4x the support per capita towards electric charging that England does. No wonder the charging infrastructure north of the border is so much better than in England.

Scottish councils received £1.91 per capita to be spent on EV charging, while Welsh councils are given £0.91 per capita.

Meanwhile English councils received just £0.45 per capita – less than a quarter of their Scottish counterparts and half the Welsh figure.

Almost two thirds (62%) of English councils haven’t received any government funding for EV charging points, compared to just 6% of Scottish councils and 38% of Welsh councils.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2020/11/02/scotland-leads-uk-investment-on-ev-charging-infrastructure

Martyn1981

Progress on 'Alice' the 9 seater BEV airplane.

Eviation Rolls Out 100% Electric Airplane Alice’s Production Version

Was the company’s plan too ambitious? Seemingly not. In November 2020, Eviation said it was indeed on track to deliver its first Alice electric airplanes to customer in 2022. Yes, that customer is still Cape Air, which is a regional aircraft carrier in New England, USA. Steve Hanley provided an update on the dream of the electric aviation startup. “Alice is built for regional flights up to 650 miles at a cruising speed of 276 mph. That covers journeys like from San Jose to San Diego or London to Prague. While conventional planes fly faster, electric planes like Alice are 2 to 3 orders of magnitude quieter than commercial jet aircraft and could use shorter runways. Those factors mean they can fly into and out of smaller airports that are closer to travelers’ final destinations.”

“‘I think it’s important that the industry looks at its responsibilities to the planet and makes itself more sustainable in terms of emissions, but it needs to work economically,’ Bar-Yohay says. Alice costs about $200 per flight hour to operate. A turboprop with similar performance costs between $1,200 and $2,000 per flight hour, meaning ticket prices for Alice could be substantially less than those for conventional aircraft. Lots of people might be delighted to add an hour or two to their flight if they can fly for half the money.”

All of that background brings us to this month’s news. A production version of Alice has been finalized. Eviation is approaching the runway! Its first flight is planned for later this year, and the goal remains to deliver the first customer planes to Cape Air in 2022 — next year.

Though, apparently, Cape Air also needs some time with the plane itself and use in commercial service is not expected until 2024.

shinytop

Martyn1981 said:

Progress on 'Alice' the 9 seater BEV airplane.

Eviation Rolls Out 100% Electric Airplane Alice’s Production Version

Was the company’s plan too ambitious? Seemingly not. In November 2020, Eviation said it was indeed on track to deliver its first Alice electric airplanes to customer in 2022. Yes, that customer is still Cape Air, which is a regional aircraft carrier in New England, USA. Steve Hanley provided an update on the dream of the electric aviation startup. “Alice is built for regional flights up to 650 miles at a cruising speed of 276 mph. That covers journeys like from San Jose to San Diego or London to Prague. While conventional planes fly faster, electric planes like Alice are 2 to 3 orders of magnitude quieter than commercial jet aircraft and could use shorter runways. Those factors mean they can fly into and out of smaller airports that are closer to travelers’ final destinations.”

“‘I think it’s important that the industry looks at its responsibilities to the planet and makes itself more sustainable in terms of emissions, but it needs to work economically,’ Bar-Yohay says. Alice costs about $200 per flight hour to operate. A turboprop with similar performance costs between $1,200 and $2,000 per flight hour, meaning ticket prices for Alice could be substantially less than those for conventional aircraft. Lots of people might be delighted to add an hour or two to their flight if they can fly for half the money.”

All of that background brings us to this month’s news. A production version of Alice has been finalized. Eviation is approaching the runway! Its first flight is planned for later this year, and the goal remains to deliver the first customer planes to Cape Air in 2022 — next year.

Though, apparently, Cape Air also needs some time with the plane itself and use in commercial service is not expected until 2024.

Very interesting. I wonder if the economics will work.  It suggests a turboprop costs 6-10 times the E plane to operate.  Does that include the purchase cost? An ICE car certainly doesn't cost 6-12 times as much as an EV to operate.  I also worry about the staff costs; a pilot per 9 passengers is a lot more than currently and there are a lot of other industry costs that are per aircraft rather than per passenger.  

It is good to see a move to smaller, lighter vehicles; it's a shame the BEV industry isn't going ther same way. 

CKhalvashi

shinytop said:

Martyn1981 said:

Progress on 'Alice' the 9 seater BEV airplane.

Eviation Rolls Out 100% Electric Airplane Alice’s Production Version

Was the company’s plan too ambitious? Seemingly not. In November 2020, Eviation said it was indeed on track to deliver its first Alice electric airplanes to customer in 2022. Yes, that customer is still Cape Air, which is a regional aircraft carrier in New England, USA. Steve Hanley provided an update on the dream of the electric aviation startup. “Alice is built for regional flights up to 650 miles at a cruising speed of 276 mph. That covers journeys like from San Jose to San Diego or London to Prague. While conventional planes fly faster, electric planes like Alice are 2 to 3 orders of magnitude quieter than commercial jet aircraft and could use shorter runways. Those factors mean they can fly into and out of smaller airports that are closer to travelers’ final destinations.”

“‘I think it’s important that the industry looks at its responsibilities to the planet and makes itself more sustainable in terms of emissions, but it needs to work economically,’ Bar-Yohay says. Alice costs about $200 per flight hour to operate. A turboprop with similar performance costs between $1,200 and $2,000 per flight hour, meaning ticket prices for Alice could be substantially less than those for conventional aircraft. Lots of people might be delighted to add an hour or two to their flight if they can fly for half the money.”

All of that background brings us to this month’s news. A production version of Alice has been finalized. Eviation is approaching the runway! Its first flight is planned for later this year, and the goal remains to deliver the first customer planes to Cape Air in 2022 — next year.

Though, apparently, Cape Air also needs some time with the plane itself and use in commercial service is not expected until 2024.

Very interesting. I wonder if the economics will work.  It suggests a turboprop costs 6-10 times the E plane to operate.  Does that include the purchase cost? An ICE car certainly doesn't cost 6-12 times as much as an EV to operate.  I also worry about the staff costs; a pilot per 9 passengers is a lot more than currently and there are a lot of other industry costs that are per aircraft rather than per passenger.  

It is good to see a move to smaller, lighter vehicles; it's a shame the BEV industry isn't going ther same way. 

It'd be perfect for the runs to replace the L-410 on domestic Georgian routes (I think only currently from KUT), and for something like the proposed Yerevan/Gyumri-Kapan, assuming it has the range to fly both ways. Not sure about Armenian airports, but I know Georgian airports charge on a 1000kg basis, then a pax basis.

Aviation is something I know a fair amount about, and I'm sure there will be government incentives (IIRC these routes are subsidised anyway) to make electric aviation work.

An American airline was looking to use them on PSO routes too, as they meet the requirements for this. I wouldn't be surprised if they pop into air taxi roles at some point, especially to smaller airports.

I try to minimise emissions over any journey involving, so picking an all-economy A321NEO over a dirty old 737-800 where possible for example, even though the journey to Luton is further than Stansted, emissions are saved over the flight. The only exception to this has been an emergency run back to the UK (original flight cancelled) and to specific airports that the low cost carriers don't fly to.

ETA: Noel Philips did a Youtube video reviewing the tiny regional US airlines, well worth a watch.