Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

Sandy Munro Says Tesla Shouldn't Build A $25,000 Electric Car

https://insideevs.com/news/448770/sandy-munro-tesla-shouldnt-build-25000-ev/

JKenH

Lucid Motors unveils cheaper version of upcoming EV sedan

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3622166-lucid-motors-unveils-cheaper-version-of-upcoming-ev-sedan

Martyn1981

More news on bi-directional charging for the UK (and others), so lots of potential, if enough BEV's have bidirectional charging. At upto 11kW I suppose this could be a great money earner for bus companies, firms with a fleet of vans etc etc.

11 kW Bi-Directional ABB Chargers Coming To France, UK, Germany, Italy, Belgium

ABB has long been one of the leaders of the electric vehicle (EV) charging industry. It’s taking the industry another step forward with bi-directional 11 kW charging. The new charging station comes along with a vehicle-to-grid (V2G) partnership in France with DREEV. The partnership will also expand to the UK, Italy, Belgium, and Germany in time.

Used to send electricity back to the grid when the grid could use it and the plugged in vehicles have plenty of charge, ABB reports that each participating EV could make up to €20/month under the system.

Seven seat TMY has gotten closer. I'm still trying to convince Wifey that she wants a (regular) TMY for her 50th in a couple of years ..... she's not convinced .... yet. I think LHD pricing is now available in Europe, but I assume Germany will need a few years before the UK gets them. [Regarding the S pricing, I see that Elon is still taking pops at the SEC.]

7-Seat Tesla Model Y Production & Delivery Schedule, & 6 Top Competitors

In response to Tesla [NASDAQ:TSLA] CEO Elon Musk’s tweet today about the Tesla Model S price dropping to $69,420, the person representing Tesla Owners Silicon Valley on Twitter asked about progress on the 7-seat Tesla Model Y. Elon responded that production starts next month and deliveries will begin in early December, which is basically right on schedule with much earlier forecasts from Elon about the 7-seat Tesla Model Y timeline.

Martyn1981

This article raises the question of whether (or not) battery fires will slow down BEV take up. I assume that it would if supply was unlimited, but perhaps demand will remain greater than supply, so it won't have any actual impact on take up. I don't think all the bad press Tesla got (going back) for some fires had much of an impact, again due to supply issues, rather than demand issues.

Fingers crossed that any and all problems will be solved before this becomes a major concern/issue to take up.

Battery Fires May Slow The EV Revolution

Ford, GM, and Hyundai are all struggling with battery fire issues in their electric and plug-in hybrid cars. A few years ago, battery fires in Tesla automobiles were major front page news events but these latest troubles have caused less of a media frenzy. Still, those who of us who wish for a faster transition to all electric transportation understand that people who are on the fence about driving an electric car don’t need any excuse to delay their decision to buy one.

Hexane

shinytop said:

JKenH said:

ABrass said:

JKenH said:

Tesla Vs. The Dinosaurs - Round 1, Europe

These are the figures for some of the largest EU markets (Year to date except UK (Q3)):

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4378837-tesla-vs-dinosaurs-round-1-europe

Interesting article, completely wrong in  conclusion and method, but interesting.

The premise is that Tesla is struggling because their share of the market is lower this year compared to the legacy manufacturers. In reality they're supply limited. That's all, they can't sell cars they can't build. If only they were smart enough to build an EU based factory.

The article below supports that argument. The reality is we just don’t know yet. Tesla may be supply constrained or it may be that competitors are bringing out models that can compete. We will only truly know, perhaps, when Tesla Berlin is up and running. 

I think the significance of the figures is that it challenges the perception that ICE manufacturers would not be able to rise to the challenge and Tesla would build an unassailable lead. The figures suggest the legacy manufacturers are still in the game and we may have to rethink that perception. 

https://electrek.co/2020/08/13/tesla-sales-sliding-europe-competition/

Isn't it just because Teslas are £50-80k and the rest are £30-40k?  And when BMW and Merc get their acts together, won't Europeans buy their £50-80k BEVs instead of American ones ? 

The Tesla Model 3 SR+ is very much in the £30-40K price bracket not the £50-80K price bracket. Plenty of models from manufacturers other than Tesla are in the £50-80K price bracket (Audi, Jaguar, others?) although some are not (Nissan, Hyundai, others). It's not clear when BMW and Mercedes will get their act together, or whether they will follow Audi's lead on sticking with the higher price bracket when they do.

JKenH

JKenH said:

Lucid Motors unveils cheaper version of upcoming EV sedan

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3622166-lucid-motors-unveils-cheaper-version-of-upcoming-ev-sedan

Tesla dropped the price of the Model S by $8,000 this year alone and sales are still going down.

Supply constrained?

The EV market is evolving fast and, like with most new tech, buyers want the latest model. Nissan Leaf sales have also been decimated. There are so many exciting new cars being rolled out that it is no surprise that anything dated is losing out to the new generation. 

https://electrek.co/2020/10/14/tesla-reduce-model-s-price-again-elon-musk-takes-shot-lucid/

GM have announced 12 new electric vehicles by 2023

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33352012/gm-electric-cars-cadillac-chevy-buick-hummer-specs/

and Mercedes are to release 6 new all electric vehicles. https://thedriven.io/2020/10/07/mercedes-shapes-up-to-tesla-plans-six-new-evs-in-electric-first-strategy/

ABrass

JKenH said:

JKenH said:

Lucid Motors unveils cheaper version of upcoming EV sedan

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3622166-lucid-motors-unveils-cheaper-version-of-upcoming-ev-sedan

Tesla dropped the price of the Model S by $8,000 this year alone and sales are still going down.

Supply constrained?

The EV market is evolving fast and, like with most new tech, buyers want the latest model. Nissan Leaf sales have also been decimated. There are so many exciting new cars being rolled out that it is no surprise that anything dated is losing out to the new generation. 

https://electrek.co/2020/10/14/tesla-reduce-model-s-price-again-elon-musk-takes-shot-lucid/

GM have announced 12 new electric vehicles by 2023

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33352012/gm-electric-cars-cadillac-chevy-buick-hummer-specs/

and Mercedes are to release 6 new all electric vehicles. https://thedriven.io/2020/10/07/mercedes-shapes-up-to-tesla-plans-six-new-evs-in-electric-first-strategy/

No, on the Model S it is demand constraint. It was very strong before the Model 3 but it's been needing a major refresh since then. Since it uses a different cell to the model 3, unlike the Y, it doesn't actually compete with them for resources either.

But since the majority of that price drop happened in the last week I'm not sure the bolded text is helpful.

Martyn1981

Hexane said:

shinytop said:

JKenH said:

ABrass said:

JKenH said:

Tesla Vs. The Dinosaurs - Round 1, Europe

These are the figures for some of the largest EU markets (Year to date except UK (Q3)):

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4378837-tesla-vs-dinosaurs-round-1-europe

Interesting article, completely wrong in  conclusion and method, but interesting.

The premise is that Tesla is struggling because their share of the market is lower this year compared to the legacy manufacturers. In reality they're supply limited. That's all, they can't sell cars they can't build. If only they were smart enough to build an EU based factory.

The article below supports that argument. The reality is we just don’t know yet. Tesla may be supply constrained or it may be that competitors are bringing out models that can compete. We will only truly know, perhaps, when Tesla Berlin is up and running. 

I think the significance of the figures is that it challenges the perception that ICE manufacturers would not be able to rise to the challenge and Tesla would build an unassailable lead. The figures suggest the legacy manufacturers are still in the game and we may have to rethink that perception. 

https://electrek.co/2020/08/13/tesla-sales-sliding-europe-competition/

Isn't it just because Teslas are £50-80k and the rest are £30-40k?  And when BMW and Merc get their acts together, won't Europeans buy their £50-80k BEVs instead of American ones ? 

The Tesla Model 3 SR+ is very much in the £30-40K price bracket not the £50-80K price bracket. Plenty of models from manufacturers other than Tesla are in the £50-80K price bracket (Audi, Jaguar, others?) although some are not (Nissan, Hyundai, others). It's not clear when BMW and Mercedes will get their act together, or whether they will follow Audi's lead on sticking with the higher price bracket when they do.

Sorry to be pedantic but the SR+ starts at a smidge over £40k, so technically in the £40-50k range, but actually 'only' about £5k more than the starting prices for the longer range Leaf, Kona etc. which are also great cars. Taking size into account, they would work out about the same, price wise. But revenue wise only Tesla gets the retail price which makes life even harder for the other companies still selling through dealerships.

Regarding BMW and Mercedes, they may already be too late. Both have haemorrhaged sales in the US as they sell on the higher quality and power of their driving machines, but BEV's leapfrog straight over an expensive ICE with more power, always on tap, and at a lower cost. BMW are taking too long to adapt, and Merc's offerings look to be expensive with comparably low range.

I'm not sure the old guard have moved far enough and fast enough to survive now. Some may go under, most will probably have to combine. They need profits to fund the BEV transition, but they can't make money on BEV's yet, whilst revenues fall on ICEV's.

VW looks like it may have acted big enough and fast enough. Renault and Nissan have done well, though Nissan is considering withdrawing into higher priced luxury BEV's as they can't make a profit on the smaller ones, which I think is a bad move as they will go head to head with Tesla.

The Koreans have a good chance, and all battery fire jokes aside, have great technology already.

Ford and GM are probably both going to go bust, their debts are too high and expensive, and all their assets/factories are ICE related so could have relatively low values in a very short time period. So transitioning today, when their revenues and profits are falling (or losses are growing) is going to be hard to do fast enough.

Toyota is gambling on HFCEV's in Japan, which makes sense, especially if they import H2, but sales will be close to zero elsewhere. They are also the kings, I would suggest, of HEV's and PHEV's, but that market could collapse soon in Europe and N. America as PHEV v's BEV costs get closer, and TCO favours BEV's already.

The next ten years is going to be brutal for the ICEV players, it's just not a long enough, and slow enough transition period for them as Tesla is driving it forward faster than they can adapt both economically and technologically.

Martyn1981

Martyn1981 said:

Toyota is gambling on HFCEV's in Japan, which makes sense, especially if they import H2, but sales will be close to zero elsewhere. They are also the kings, I would suggest, of HEV's and PHEV's, but that market could collapse soon in Europe and N. America as PHEV v's BEV costs get closer, and TCO favours BEV's already.

Speaking of which:

The Loophole the Auto Industry Uses in the EU to Evade the Emission Rules

Years ago I wrote about my expectation, based on simple logic, that around this time, in the C-segment (e.g., Volkswagen Golf) and the lower-cost models of the D-segment (e.g., Skoda Superb), fully electric autos would become price competitive with their fossil fuel ancestors.
I was wrong. I expected the carmakers to try to get as big of a slice of the BEV market as possible as soon as it became profitable. They are not even trying. Volkswagen is positioning itself as a future champion. The rest, crickets.

The EU should close this loophole by using the expected CO2 emissions in the first year(s) of usage. The WLTP standard allows for corrections based on real-world emissions. Now is the time to use that correction mechanism. 

EVandPV

Another petrolhead converted .....

TT racer Guy Martin joins EV movement with DM Keith Honda e purchase

https://www.am-online.com/news/people-news/2020/10/15/guy-martin-joins-the-electric-movement-with-honda-e-purchase