Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

buglawton

EVandPV said:

buglawton said:

EVandPV said:

Electric family cars are CHEAPER to own than petrol and diesel models: Lower maintenance and charging costs mean they are £132-a-month less expensive

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8807221/Are-electric-family-cars-cheaper-petrol-diesel.html

Ours cost less than £132/m each to run so I'd like to see how that works.

Er, you could try reading the article.

I did begin it then realised the article is  sponsored by Leaseplan. Not relevant to me as I've never leased a car and never intend to. Note the name of this forum 'MSE'.

EVandPV

buglawton said:

Martyn1981 said:

EVandPV said:

Electric family cars are CHEAPER to own than petrol and diesel models: Lower maintenance and charging costs mean they are £132-a-month less expensive

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8807221/Are-electric-family-cars-cheaper-petrol-diesel.html

Doh! I didn't stop scrolling soon enough, I hit the comments section - "batts need replacing every 5 yrs", "insurance costs 3x more" ...... why won't these people let facts in?

Facts like in this article in today's DT?
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20201012/281861530974056
Electric car insurance costs drivers up to 62pc more

"Shopping around reduces the difference but electric cars cost more to buy so may often attract higher-priced premiums, said GoCompare."

Strange, my EV was almost exactly 50% less to insure than my last ICE.
I'd better check they didn't make a mistake. 

Martyn1981

buglawton said:

Martyn1981 said:

EVandPV said:

Electric family cars are CHEAPER to own than petrol and diesel models: Lower maintenance and charging costs mean they are £132-a-month less expensive

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8807221/Are-electric-family-cars-cheaper-petrol-diesel.html

Doh! I didn't stop scrolling soon enough, I hit the comments section - "batts need replacing every 5 yrs", "insurance costs 3x more" ...... why won't these people let facts in?

Facts like in this article in today's DT?
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20201012/281861530974056
Electric car insurance costs drivers up to 62pc more

"Shopping around reduces the difference but electric cars cost more to buy so may often attract higher-priced premiums, said GoCompare."

Nope. Our experience has been the exact opposite:
£5k Zafira petrol £240
£10k Leaf BEV £240
£20k Ioniq BEV £220
£50k TM3 BEV £280
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts."

Martyn1981

Great news for EV's in Europe but the UK could see reduced supply if the EU becomes more attractive:

Electric Cars Will Treble Market Share This Year In Europe

Electric cars will treble their market share in Europe this year as a result of EU car CO2 targets, new analysis shows. Despite the pandemic, EV sales have surged since 1 January, just as the emissions standards kicked in, and will reach 10% this year and 15% in 2021. Transport & Environment (T&E), which analysed sales in the first half of 2020 as well as carmakers’ compliance strategies, said it shows ambitious CO2 standards work but there’s a risk EV momentum runs out of steam after 2021 due to lax EU targets for 2025 and 2030.

Julia Poliscanova, senior director for clean vehicles at T&E, said: “Electric car sales are booming thanks to EU emissions standards. Next year, one in every seven cars sold in Europe will be a plug-in. EU manufacturers are back in the EV race, but without more ambitious CO2 targets in 2025 and 2030 to spur them on, they’ll run out of steam as soon as 2022.”

Electric Cars Booming In Europe, But UK Growth Threatened Without New Regulations

Carmakers must meet targets to reduce the average emissions of the cars they sell in Europe, or pay fines. But from 2021, UK sales of EVs will not help manufacturers achieve EU standards. The government has so far failed to make parliamentary time available for equivalent new UK regulations to encourage sales here. These must be introduced by the end of October to be in place by January and maintain supplies of electric cars to the UK.

T&E analysis shows that the current draft regulation contains errors that will lead to about a fifth less EVs being sold in the UK than was likely if it had remained a part of the existing EU scheme. This is despite government claims that the rules are equivalent to those in the EU.

Greg Archer concluded: “The electric car is becoming mainstream but we risk turning off the tap in Britain. Carmakers will prioritise EV sales in markets where laws and tax breaks encourage them most, but the UK’s proposed standards are too weak and maybe too late. Government needs to quickly introduce regulations equivalent to the EU’s in 2021, or demand for electric cars will outstrip available supply and drivers will be left with long waits to secure their new electric car which will be more expensive.”

The government has announced it plans to phase out the sale of all new cars with engines by 2035 at the latest and may bring the date forward as early as 2030. But without these regulations, the growing market will stall.

silverwhistle

Martyn1981 said:

:
£5k Zafira petrol £240
£10k Leaf BEV £240
£20k Ioniq BEV £220
£50k TM3 BEV £280
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts."

Yep, my experience pretty similar, with similar prices from  a <£2K Hyundai to a £22k MG. Had to change insurers mind.

That said, they are expensive to someone like me who normally lets someone else take the depreciation hit, but I intend to keep it a long time. So far I've used my own solar and supermarket charging to at least keep the marginal costs down!

ASavvyBuyer

Martyn1981 said:

Nope. Our experience has been the exact opposite:
£5k Zafira petrol £240
£10k Leaf BEV £240
£20k Ioniq BEV £220
£50k TM3 BEV £280
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts."

Similar experience here. The insurance for the new Soul EV was slightly cheaper than the 7 year old Diesel Panda we traded in for the Zoe, and the insurance for the new Zoe worked out to be the same. All with the same insurer. So no real difference in insurance costs, even though the value of the new cars was a lot higher.

JKenH

Tesla Vs. The Dinosaurs - Round 1, Europe

These are the figures for some of the largest EU markets (Year to date except UK (Q3)):

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4378837-tesla-vs-dinosaurs-round-1-europe

ABrass

JKenH said:

Tesla Vs. The Dinosaurs - Round 1, Europe

These are the figures for some of the largest EU markets (Year to date except UK (Q3)):

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4378837-tesla-vs-dinosaurs-round-1-europe

Interesting article, completely wrong in  conclusion and method, but interesting.

The premise is that Tesla is struggling because their share of the market is lower this year compared to the legacy manufacturers. In reality they're supply limited. That's all, they can't sell cars they can't build. If only they were smart enough to build an EU based factory.

JKenH

ABrass said:

JKenH said:

Tesla Vs. The Dinosaurs - Round 1, Europe

These are the figures for some of the largest EU markets (Year to date except UK (Q3)):

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4378837-tesla-vs-dinosaurs-round-1-europe

Interesting article, completely wrong in  conclusion and method, but interesting.

The premise is that Tesla is struggling because their share of the market is lower this year compared to the legacy manufacturers. In reality they're supply limited. That's all, they can't sell cars they can't build. If only they were smart enough to build an EU based factory.

The article below supports that argument. The reality is we just don’t know yet. Tesla may be supply constrained or it may be that competitors are bringing out models that can compete. We will only truly know, perhaps, when Tesla Berlin is up and running. 

I think the significance of the figures is that it challenges the perception that ICE manufacturers would not be able to rise to the challenge and Tesla would build an unassailable lead. The figures suggest the legacy manufacturers are still in the game and we may have to rethink that perception. 

https://electrek.co/2020/08/13/tesla-sales-sliding-europe-competition/

Martyn1981

ABrass said:

JKenH said:

Tesla Vs. The Dinosaurs - Round 1, Europe

These are the figures for some of the largest EU markets (Year to date except UK (Q3)):

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4378837-tesla-vs-dinosaurs-round-1-europe

Interesting article, completely wrong in  conclusion and method, but interesting.

The premise is that Tesla is struggling because their share of the market is lower this year compared to the legacy manufacturers. In reality they're supply limited. That's all, they can't sell cars they can't build. If only they were smart enough to build an EU based factory.

Yep, it's all pretty obvious when you think it through rationally.
Similar silly argument - There's a US short who appears on telly all the time (even though his tip ranking is about 6,000 out of 7,000(ish)) to explain his very low price targets for Tesla. He just keeps on and on about how Tesla sales effectively peaked in N. America in Q4 2018 ...... so obviously that proves something then ...... or it coincides with the start of exports to Europe and China!
You'd think an annual increase in production and delivery of vehicles of ~40% would speak for itself ........ you'd think?