Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

ABrass said:

JKenH said:

Tesla Vs. The Dinosaurs - Round 1, Europe

These are the figures for some of the largest EU markets (Year to date except UK (Q3)):

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4378837-tesla-vs-dinosaurs-round-1-europe

Interesting article, completely wrong in  conclusion and method, but interesting.

The premise is that Tesla is struggling because their share of the market is lower this year compared to the legacy manufacturers. In reality they're supply limited. That's all, they can't sell cars they can't build. If only they were smart enough to build an EU based factory.

Yep, it's all pretty obvious when you think it through rationally.
Similar silly argument - There's a US short who appears on telly all the time (even though his tip ranking is about 6,000 out of 7,000(ish)) to explain his very low price targets for Tesla. He just keeps on and on about how Tesla sales effectively peaked in N. America in Q4 2018 ...... so obviously that proves something then ...... or it coincides with the start of exports to Europe and China!
You'd think an annual increase in production and delivery of vehicles of ~40% would speak for itself ........ you'd think?

It may also be the case that sales of BEVs from some legacy manufacturers is supply constrained. I am a little puzzled though that Tesla keeps cutting prices if sales are supply constrained. That does not make a lot of business sense. 

I think there is a difference between the European market where there are several other BEV manufacturers and the US market where (please correct me if I am wrong) there is only one (old) model on the market from the legacy manufacturers as competition. 

Time will tell.

EVandPV

buglawton said:

Note the name of this forum 'MSE'.

Yup, that's why folk are buying BEVs. 👍

buglawton

EVandPV said:

buglawton said:

Martyn1981 said:

EVandPV said:

Electric family cars are CHEAPER to own than petrol and diesel models: Lower maintenance and charging costs mean they are £132-a-month less expensive

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8807221/Are-electric-family-cars-cheaper-petrol-diesel.html

Doh! I didn't stop scrolling soon enough, I hit the comments section - "batts need replacing every 5 yrs", "insurance costs 3x more" ...... why won't these people let facts in?

Facts like in this article in today's DT?
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20201012/281861530974056
Electric car insurance costs drivers up to 62pc more

"Shopping around reduces the difference but electric cars cost more to buy so may often attract higher-priced premiums, said GoCompare."

Strange, my EV was almost exactly 50% less to insure than my last ICE.
I'd better check they didn't make a mistake. 

Wife & I are paying under £500 pa for 2 cars we can both drive. If someone can quote £125 pa full comp 2 drivers for a used Nissan Leaf then I'll be impressed.

EVandPV

buglawton said:

Wife & I are paying under £500 pa for 2 cars we can both drive. If someone can quote £125 pa full comp 2 drivers for a used Nissan Leaf then I'll be impressed.

Here you go, I'm guessing this is less than at least one of your ICE cars .....

EricMears

buglawton said:

EVandPV said:

buglawton said:

Martyn1981 said:

EVandPV said:

Electric family cars are CHEAPER to own than petrol and diesel models: Lower maintenance and charging costs mean they are £132-a-month less expensive

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8807221/Are-electric-family-cars-cheaper-petrol-diesel.html

Doh! I didn't stop scrolling soon enough, I hit the comments section - "batts need replacing every 5 yrs", "insurance costs 3x more" ...... why won't these people let facts in?

Facts like in this article in today's DT?
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20201012/281861530974056
Electric car insurance costs drivers up to 62pc more

"Shopping around reduces the difference but electric cars cost more to buy so may often attract higher-priced premiums, said GoCompare."

Strange, my EV was almost exactly 50% less to insure than my last ICE.
I'd better check they didn't make a mistake. 

Wife & I are paying under £500 pa for 2 cars we can both drive. If someone can quote £125 pa full comp 2 drivers for a used Nissan Leaf then I'll be impressed.

Nobody here can even guess what your insurance premiums are likely to be !  There are far too many variables to consider.

You need to find (not buy - just get its details) an acceptable car currently being advertised or spotted in a local car park then enter its details and your personal ones into a car insurance comparison site and you'll get a page full of alternative quotes some cheap as chips, some exorbitant.

JKenH

buglawton said:

EVandPV said:

buglawton said:

Martyn1981 said:

EVandPV said:

Electric family cars are CHEAPER to own than petrol and diesel models: Lower maintenance and charging costs mean they are £132-a-month less expensive

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8807221/Are-electric-family-cars-cheaper-petrol-diesel.html

Doh! I didn't stop scrolling soon enough, I hit the comments section - "batts need replacing every 5 yrs", "insurance costs 3x more" ...... why won't these people let facts in?

Facts like in this article in today's DT?
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20201012/281861530974056
Electric car insurance costs drivers up to 62pc more

"Shopping around reduces the difference but electric cars cost more to buy so may often attract higher-priced premiums, said GoCompare."

Strange, my EV was almost exactly 50% less to insure than my last ICE.
I'd better check they didn't make a mistake. 

Wife & I are paying under £500 pa for 2 cars we can both drive. If someone can quote £125 pa full comp 2 drivers for a used Nissan Leaf then I'll be impressed.

Can’t quite get to £125 but I pay less than £180 for me and the wife with an SP30 on my licence for my 20 plate Nissan Leaf with protected discount. That was less than my Golf 1.6tdi which preceded it. We’ve just had the renewal through for my wife’s 9 year old Kia Picanto and that has come in at £190 so for me a new Leaf is cheaper to insure than a 9 year old Picanto.

Different underwriters adopt different criteria. Saga wanted twice as much to insure the Leaf, so it doesn’t surprise me that GoCompare said motorists “could end up paying as much as 62%“ more to insure an EV. As they suggest, shop around as you would with an ICE car.

buglawton

EVandPV said:

buglawton said:

Wife & I are paying under £500 pa for 2 cars we can both drive. If someone can quote £125 pa full comp 2 drivers for a used Nissan Leaf then I'll be impressed.

Here you go, I'm guessing this is less than at least one of your ICE cars .....

That's good and would form my baseline were I to go for a cheap used EV. Demand for those is through the roof atm so asking prices are exaggerated unfortunately.

EVandPV

buglawton said:

EVandPV said:

buglawton said:

Wife & I are paying under £500 pa for 2 cars we can both drive. If someone can quote £125 pa full comp 2 drivers for a used Nissan Leaf then I'll be impressed.

Here you go, I'm guessing this is less than at least one of your ICE cars .....

That's good and would form my baseline were I to go for a cheap used EV. Demand for those is through the roof atm so asking prices are exaggerated unfortunately.

If your in Scotland, the Energy Savings Trust are now doing 6 years interest free loans on used as well as new EVs.
Up to £35k for new cars and £20k for used.

shinytop

JKenH said:

ABrass said:

JKenH said:

Tesla Vs. The Dinosaurs - Round 1, Europe

These are the figures for some of the largest EU markets (Year to date except UK (Q3)):

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4378837-tesla-vs-dinosaurs-round-1-europe

Interesting article, completely wrong in  conclusion and method, but interesting.

The premise is that Tesla is struggling because their share of the market is lower this year compared to the legacy manufacturers. In reality they're supply limited. That's all, they can't sell cars they can't build. If only they were smart enough to build an EU based factory.

The article below supports that argument. The reality is we just don’t know yet. Tesla may be supply constrained or it may be that competitors are bringing out models that can compete. We will only truly know, perhaps, when Tesla Berlin is up and running. 

I think the significance of the figures is that it challenges the perception that ICE manufacturers would not be able to rise to the challenge and Tesla would build an unassailable lead. The figures suggest the legacy manufacturers are still in the game and we may have to rethink that perception. 

https://electrek.co/2020/08/13/tesla-sales-sliding-europe-competition/

Isn't it just because Teslas are £50-80k and the rest are £30-40k?  And when BMW and Merc get their acts together, won't Europeans buy their £50-80k BEVs instead of American ones ? 

JKenH

Auto sales are down in the U.S. but pricing is heading higher

As for EVs, Tesla is given due credit, but there is a reminder that Bolt sales were up 17.6% in the quarter and are up 7.2% YTD.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3622140-auto-sales-are-down-in-u-s-pricing-is-heading-higher