Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

michaels

NigeWick said:

QrizB said:

I don't think I've ever seen so many EVs charging at once before.

You should see Exeter in the summer. Took us over 15 minutes just to get round the roundabouts then queues for the chargers. Luckily we only go to Teignmouth so managed without stopping.

Yeah, no queuing system (a few ineffective marshalls) and no way for leaf owners to get a Chademo space plus the charging slows to a crawl when they are all in use. Last time I was there the Tesla's were Tesla only but still busy.

Netexporter

Top tip. Go to Darts Farm to charge up. Takes no longer to do the couple of miles than it does to negotiate all the roundabouts and traffic lights to get into Exeter Services. Much nicer food at the restaurants and farm shop. You could have also bought an Aga, before the Fired Earth showroom went bust.

Martyn1981

NedS said:

QrizB said:

^ I can't comment on the rate of charge point installations, but we went to visit relatives in the far southwest over Christmas.

On the way down, we stopped for a comfort break at Exeter M5 services. I was impressed by the number of chargers installed in the carpark there; not only a plaza of 32 Tesla superchargers, but 42 Gridserve CCS chargers (& 12 ChaDeMo) too.

On the way back, we stopped again. The CCS Gridserve chargers were full and the Tesla ones close-to-capacity, with the occasional car circling to find a spot.

I don't think I've ever seen so many EVs charging at once before. But I guess it won't be the last time!

Such installations must draw some serious power. Do they have dedicated substations feeding them? I'm guessing modern commercial fast chargers are three phase so there's no phase imbalance to worry about.

Hi Ned, not what you asked, but some of the larger charging sites around the world are deploying large battery storage to buffer the power supply and smooth it out, both for station demand, and BEV charging rates.

Taken to the extreme, with enough battery storage, you can go 'off-grid' with a large enough PV farm attached, such as this Tesla site in the US, with ~39MWh of battery storage. [To be clear, I think it has a large grid power supply, but that it currently isn't needed till they complete the build out from 84 to 168 chargers.] Just thinking out loud, maybe a roll out of battery buffers at charging sites in Scotland, to make use of excess wind generation at times?

The World's Largest Tesla Supercharger Station Is Entirely Off-Grid

QrizB

Netexporter said:

Top tip. Go to Darts Farm to charge up.

The opposite end of the scale, but the couple of times we've taken the e-UP! that way we've stopped at the Pinhoe Lidl. Only a single CCS charger (plus a ChaDeMo) but relatively cheap and Lidl has a loo

Martyn1981

Year end figures for the UK by SMMT are out.

BEV's spiked at 32% in Dec (as companies try to hit targets), and closed the year at 23.43%, a bit short of the 28% mandate, but probably scrapes through with the PHEV allowance.

SMMT sales figures

JKenH

The SMMT suggests BEVs, despite the increase in market share, are still proving to sell, requiring a discount of £11,000 per vehicle. Manufacturers, of course, do also offer discounts on ICE vehicles but SMMT do not mention these so presumably they are not nearly so unsustainable. It is much cheaper for manufacturers to discount an EV by £11,000 than pay penalties totalling £53k £38.5k to sell the  3.5 2.5 ICE cars that customers actually want to buy. Manufacturers will continue to discount EVs even more to avoid penalties in future years so we can expect significant discounts on EVs for a while yet.

Massive manufacturer investment now provides a choice of more than 160 BEV models – up from just over 130 at the start of 2025 – with at least 60 more due in 2026. However, EV uptake has risen by only 23.9%. The long-awaited return of a grant for EV purchase has helped, although only around a quarter of models are currently eligible for the incentive at any level. It is manufacturers, therefore, that continue to shoulder the burden of driving up demand, subsidising their sale by more than £5 billion in 2025, equivalent to a massive £11,000 per BEV registered. Such subsidies are clearly unsustainable.

https://www.smmt.co.uk/uk-new-car-market-breaches-two-million-as-almost-one-in-four-buyers-go-electric/

edit:correction to my maths

michaels

Depends on how the list prices are set as to whether it is a real discount, we know from China prices how little it actually costs to manufacture an EV.

However one side effect of unrealistic list prices is apparently massive depreciation which of course only discourages private buyers.

QrizB

JKenH said:

The SMMT suggests BEVs, despite the increase in market share, are still proving to sell, requiring a discount of £11,000 per vehicle.

I don't find the SMMT's arguments particularly persuasive.

SMMT said:

equivalent to a massive £11,000 per BEV registered. Such subsidies are clearly unsustainable.

The manufacturers are subsidising BEV sales to avoid falling short of the UK ZEV mandate and having to pay out £12k per excess ICE car and £15k per excess ICE van.
Absorbing £11k per BEV is a cheaper option than the fines.

Alternatively manufacturers could increase ICE prices to discourage buyers, but they don't want to do that for some reason.

michaels said:

However one side effect of unrealistic list prices is apparently massive depreciation which of course only discourages private buyers.

Agreed, reducing BEV list prices could also help rebalance their sales to achieve the ZEV mandate.

silverwhistle

shinytop said:

Some figures for public charging points in the above.  It's a bit concerning that installation rates are slowing.  Have we really reached 'peak charging point installs' or is this a blip?  

Car and charger numbers are never going to go exactly in parallel or lockstep as there are too many parties involved, investment decisions and so forth. I think you need to look at trends over a longer time period. I didn't rapid charge at all last year except at the Channel Tunnel, but if I look at previous trips north, they'd all be a lot easier now.

The bigger concern to my mind is the cost and availability of on street charging for those without drives. Plenty of people manage it, and with larger batteries and faster charging or work charging this can only get better. Based on the number of EVs I see around me it's all becoming very normalised.

As for the depreciation, I've always been a private buyer of second hand cars so never had to worry at my price point. My first EV was my first new car and I made a profit on it after 2 years (!) but my current one I'll just keep as was my usual practice. Then I'll probably buy used again, as the market of ex-lease and company cars expands. I don't see depreciation as a particularly EV matter, although some do like to make a thing of it, and I've been surprised when randomly coming across the cost of new cars these days, whatever the power plant.

When I eventually change again I suspect the research will be interesting!

Martyn1981

QrizB said:

JKenH said:

The SMMT suggests BEVs, despite the increase in market share, are still proving to sell, requiring a discount of £11,000 per vehicle.

I don't find the SMMT's arguments particularly persuasive.

SMMT said:

equivalent to a massive £11,000 per BEV registered. Such subsidies are clearly unsustainable.

The manufacturers are subsidising BEV sales to avoid falling short of the UK ZEV mandate and having to pay out £12k per excess ICE car and £15k per excess ICE van.
Absorbing £11k per BEV is a cheaper option than the fines.

Alternatively manufacturers could increase ICE prices to discourage buyers, but they don't want to do that for some reason.

michaels said:

However one side effect of unrealistic list prices is apparently massive depreciation which of course only discourages private buyers.

Agreed, reducing BEV list prices could also help rebalance their sales to achieve the ZEV mandate.

Yep. They need to go through the pain of scaling up BEV production, and thereby reducing costs, to reach profitability. Or keep selling ICEV's, till they go bust, as sales fall, and economies of scale go into reverse.

Wouldn't want to be in their shoes today, just a shame they ignored the obvious 10yrs ago, and went for the head in the sand approach. Now China's BEV's, who jumped in early, need to be restricted, to slow down legacy's decline.