Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

DiggerUK said:

silverwhistle said:

DiggerUK said:

Oh, I hadn't realised that your solar array was provided for free and it came with a free charge point, you need to realise that your solar power is not free..._

Don't patronise me, you ignorant fool.

That is not the case, you made an erroneous comment that wasn't the case. 

These costs need to be considered, especially when we are discussing on a site that specialises in money saving advice..._

We may disagree about electric cars but I admire your restraint in not descending into the gutter like @silverwhistle. 

Edit: However I believe your comments which prompted the response may have been incorrect - see post below. That still however does not excuse rudeness from the respondent.

JKenH

DiggerUK said:

silverwhistle said:

DiggerUK said:

The main reason cars with some sort of electric power (EV's) don't  sell is price.

.......I've only had my EV a few weeks and so far not paid anything for fuel; in fact just plugged my car in at home as the solar panels are producing enough surplus at the moment for the granny charger.

Oh, I hadn't realised that your solar array was provided for free and it came with a free charge point, you need to realise that your solar power is not free..._

I think @silverwhistle had solar panels anyway and commented that there was sufficient surplus to charge her car. That would otherwise go to the grid so there is no additional cost to her.  The granny charger she uses plugs into a 3 pin socket so there is no cost of a charge point to consider. Your comments might therefore be considered erroneous.

Edit: I apologise if my assumptions regarding gender and my choice of pronoun are incorrect. No offence intended.

silverwhistle

Yes, I apologise for being so rude: it is rare for me to get so fed up with people and it wouldn't have happened if  it wasn't the culmination of other ill-informed posts. I was also fed up with KenH, as I notice he didn't criticise the first patronising mail from Digger, but thank you for your correct subsequent explanation.  Perhaps Digger can now recognise that their mail can also be taken to be insulting.

Martyn1981

silverwhistle said:

Yes, I apologise for being so rude: it is rare for me to get so fed up with people and it wouldn't have happened if  it wasn't the culmination of other ill-informed posts. I was also fed up with KenH, as I notice he didn't criticise the first patronising mail from Digger, but thank you for your correct subsequent explanation.  Perhaps Digger can now recognise that their mail can also be taken to be insulting.

Sadly I think you may have walked into the trap that on several occasions you have kindly warned me about, in the past.
Their posts are designed to be insulting, annoying and disruptive, and I would suggest this becomes clearer every time as the same game is repeated, just with different puppets and on different threads.
Hope the BEV is great, I've had to put the heat pump on today, so that combined with rapidly shrinking power levels from my E/W setup, this may be the end (for now) when it comes to driving on sunshine.
All the best.

DiggerUK

My comment was parliamentary  and appropriate. Sharp comment has always been the stock in trade of debate throughout the ages. Churchill was classed as an artist of sharp comment and Shakespeare made a living and became world famous for it.

It is not correct that silverwhistle   obtained the fuel for their car for free, they had upfront charges incurred with the solar array costs, that's a fact and I mentioned it. I also view the premium costs associated with cars that utilise batteries an upfront extra cost, which is just my opinion and I didn't mention it.

I don't utilise insults as a debating point, neither do I respond in kind. EVangelicals almost seem to regard rudeness as obligatory. 

I just see it as appalling manners, an ignorance I avoid..._

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

I think this is a fun article, pointing out that tire (or tyre) costs are greater than battery costs, so we might be focusing on the wrong thing when it comes to reducing cost per mile.
Obviously an improvement in BEV tyre costs wouldn't change the comparison of TCO (total cost of ownership), where BEV's are already cheaper than ICEV's, as you'd hope any savings/improvements would be viable for all vehicle types.

Tesla Tire Costs 10× Battery Cost, & My Plan To Deflate Tire Costs 90%

When I saw Tesla’s Battery Day, I was impressed with both the breadth and the depth of the plan they presented. It covered all the parts of the battery, but also how the battery is placed in the car. The one question it raised was: “Did they put their considerable engineering talent into solving the right problem?”

I think the answer is yes, but due to my work on focusing on the total cost of ownership of the electric vehicles, I knew Tesla was missing a huge opportunity by not spending any engineering effort on tires. Most of the talk on tires is either on improving efficiency or on improving performance, but for 90% of the world, the big issue is the cost of the tires.  In this article, I’ll explain the size of the problem and propose 3 solutions to the problem.

That was a bit more interesting.

I did a run through of costs for my Leaf, and to buy Dunlop Enasave OEM tyres would work out at around £100/corner fitted. Assuming the same 40k miles (optimistic?) my tyre cost would equate to £1000 over 100,000 miles. If I guess at the battery cost (let’s say £10k?) and its expected life (maybe 200k miles?) battery degradation on the Leaf would be more like £5000/100,000 miles or around 5 x the cost of tyres. (Maybe a bit less if one applies a second user value to the retired battery.)

EVandPV

DiggerUK said:

I don't utilise insults as a debating point, 

No, just condescending tosh.

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

silverwhistle said:

Yes, I apologise for being so rude: it is rare for me to get so fed up with people and it wouldn't have happened if  it wasn't the culmination of other ill-informed posts. I was also fed up with KenH, as I notice he didn't criticise the first patronising mail from Digger, but thank you for your correct subsequent explanation.  Perhaps Digger can now recognise that their mail can also be taken to be insulting.

Sadly I think you may have walked into the trap that on several occasions you have kindly warned me about, in the past.
Their posts are designed to be insulting, annoying and disruptive, and I would suggest this becomes clearer every time as the same game is repeated, just with different puppets and on different threads.

🙄

 

Martyn1981

Nice to see an EV investment from Ford today as I have growing doubts about their shift to electric, and even their chances of survival as their revenues drop, and their financing costs rise on their enormous debt load. Perhaps if they move fast enough they may make it, perhaps channel their inner Elon (the ghost of Henry Ford).

Ford announces $1.8 billion investment to produce ‘fully battery electric vehicles’ in Canada

Ford announced today that it is investing $1.8 billion CAD to produce “fully battery electric vehicles” in Canada.

The announcement is part of a deal between Ford and Unifor, an important general trade union in Canada, on a new national labour agreement.

ABrass

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

I think this is a fun article, pointing out that tire (or tyre) costs are greater than battery costs, so we might be focusing on the wrong thing when it comes to reducing cost per mile.
Obviously an improvement in BEV tyre costs wouldn't change the comparison of TCO (total cost of ownership), where BEV's are already cheaper than ICEV's, as you'd hope any savings/improvements would be viable for all vehicle types.

Tesla Tire Costs 10× Battery Cost, & My Plan To Deflate Tire Costs 90%

When I saw Tesla’s Battery Day, I was impressed with both the breadth and the depth of the plan they presented. It covered all the parts of the battery, but also how the battery is placed in the car. The one question it raised was: “Did they put their considerable engineering talent into solving the right problem?”

I think the answer is yes, but due to my work on focusing on the total cost of ownership of the electric vehicles, I knew Tesla was missing a huge opportunity by not spending any engineering effort on tires. Most of the talk on tires is either on improving efficiency or on improving performance, but for 90% of the world, the big issue is the cost of the tires.  In this article, I’ll explain the size of the problem and propose 3 solutions to the problem.

That was a bit more interesting.

I did a run through of costs for my Leaf, and to buy Dunlop Enasave OEM tyres would work out at around £100/corner fitted. Assuming the same 40k miles (optimistic?) my tyre cost would equate to £1000 over 100,000 miles. If I guess at the battery cost (let’s say £10k?) and its expected life (maybe 200k miles?) battery degradation on the Leaf would be more like £5000/100,000 miles or around 5 x the cost of tyres. (Maybe a bit less if one applies a second user value to the retired battery.)

Hopefully I won't mess up the quotes again this time....

The cost for replacing a 40kWh battery is 8k at the moment. Which drops it to a mere 4 times. Add in that right now battery replacement is a seriously niche area and the ongoing reduction in cost and improvement in scale and you're probably looking at a lower cost when you're does die.

But it's a slightly silly metric for non fleet/taxi use. After all 200,000 miles is a LOT for normal users. 20+ years for average users.