Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

The whole video is worth watching, but I tend to find reaction videos from Steven at Solving the Money Problem, are far more insightful than I am, picking up on a lot of issues that I fail to spot just listening as a punter.

Steven's short(er) reaction video (15mins)

Tesla Battery Day: Genius Engineering (w/Sandy Munro)

It’s taken me a while to get round to watching that. All I can say is you seem to have got caught up in the hype of the Tesla fanboys. Next time I want some investment advice maybe I should grab one of the local youths doing burn outs round the village in his Honda Civic and provided he is wearing his baseball cap the wrong way round ask him if he can pull a few funny faces, make some funny noises and  take the Micky out of investment analysts (if he knows any) and ask him if he has a mate who works on cars who can tell me which car company to invest in. Preferably his mate will have noticed when working on the cars whether any OEM parts were held on by a metal strap, a few off cuts of wood and gaffer tape before he tells me to invest in that car manufacturer.

Seriously though. I am invested in Tesla and a couple of weeks ago after the share price dropped 30% I did suggest on here that the shares were worth a punt. I am not therefore anti Tesla, I think what Tesla have achieved is amazing, the M3 is a great car and it deserves its No.1 position in the marketplace but I do worry about all the hype and the fact that no one seems to be able to adopt a balanced middle ground position. Teslas are not perfect, Elon Musk is not the Messiah and I don’t think some kid wearing his baseball cap backwards who is clearly a Tesla fanboy should be touted as the fount of all wisdom when it comes to investing. 

It does concern me that there is such a huge divide between the bulls and the bears. They can’t both be right and they can’t both be wrong. Opinion on Tesla is polarised  just like so many issues today, just like Brexit was. Why is that? Why is each side so convinced they are right? I am in the middle, just as I am on other issues discussed in this board, looking for answers and all I get is noise - hype and negativity - each side only able to hear their own voices, trapped in their tribes. Why can we discuss domestic batteries or solar panels amicably and sensibly but as soon as any major issue comes along such as Climate Change (or Brexit purely as an example) we get all defensive and retreat into our corners. Brexit and Climate Change I might understand as the issues there go right to the heart of what we have been taught and believe - but Tesla?

I posted the picture of the bodge fitting on the ModelY which Sandy Munro’s colleague described as a band aid but no one else on here reacted to that. I am sure all the regulars have seen it. We all are into electric cars but no one else appeared to have an opinion on that one way or the other. What does that say? Is everyone so pro Tesla they dismiss it as being fine or is everyone just afraid to express an opinion that might be considered anti EV?  A couple of you on here have said you are not in any gang, so what do you think? 

Maybe the vast majority of Teslas are bought by companies or leased and the driver just doesn’t care. Personally if I was a Tesla owner and found that I would be pretty peeved but as a shareholder it doesn’t bother me too much in the short term, as whether Tesla succeeds or fails depends on its batteries and autonomous driving. It is something that can be fixed and will be so why doesn’t Sandy Munro just wind back a little and say Tesla have some great tech but still need to sort out build issues? He talks as though they are the best engineering company in the world doing stuff other car and battery makers could not do. Maybe because he has got caught on one side of a tribal war where no one can give an inch. He says he gets hate mail.What is going on? Just why can’t we have sensible discussion anymore?

Hi Ken, rather than constantly trying to pick fights and disrupt threads, can't you just pop me on ignore, please.

You warned when starting this thread

“Disclaimer from the start, BEV news can easily become Tesla heavy, so posts, especially mine, might appear a bit 'fanboi' “

and that is how things are turning out. The more I read of yours the more convinced I become that you only want others to see one side of the story. A prime example was the Sandy Munro video of the battery day discussion. You chose to post an edited version of the discussion with the contribution from others deleted because it suited your agenda of maintaining the illusion that Tesla are the only game in town. You cannot bear to hear it said that others are catching up. 

That’s great for your own fanboys because they only want to hear the gospel according to St Mart and chant ‘praise be to Elon Musk’ but there is another side to the story. A lot of other EV manufacturers are developing very good cars and battery manufacturers developing new technology but in your world anyone who says this out loud has their comments deleted. 

You accuse me of disrupting this thread when I am just injecting balance while at the same time you are referring to content on the Alternative Green Energy Thread I started as “vile” and thanking and encouraging others to disrupt that thread. Hardly the actions of a saint.

JKenH

EVandPV said:

JKenH said:

When someone posts an article that you approve of why try and drag it down? All I can think of is you are trying to prove you’re one of the gang? 

I'm certainly not part of anyone's gang.

Of course not. Fanboy number 1

Martyn1981

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

The whole video is worth watching, but I tend to find reaction videos from Steven at Solving the Money Problem, are far more insightful than I am, picking up on a lot of issues that I fail to spot just listening as a punter.

Steven's short(er) reaction video (15mins)

Tesla Battery Day: Genius Engineering (w/Sandy Munro)

It’s taken me a while to get round to watching that. All I can say is you seem to have got caught up in the hype of the Tesla fanboys. Next time I want some investment advice maybe I should grab one of the local youths doing burn outs round the village in his Honda Civic and provided he is wearing his baseball cap the wrong way round ask him if he can pull a few funny faces, make some funny noises and  take the Micky out of investment analysts (if he knows any) and ask him if he has a mate who works on cars who can tell me which car company to invest in. Preferably his mate will have noticed when working on the cars whether any OEM parts were held on by a metal strap, a few off cuts of wood and gaffer tape before he tells me to invest in that car manufacturer.

Seriously though. I am invested in Tesla and a couple of weeks ago after the share price dropped 30% I did suggest on here that the shares were worth a punt. I am not therefore anti Tesla, I think what Tesla have achieved is amazing, the M3 is a great car and it deserves its No.1 position in the marketplace but I do worry about all the hype and the fact that no one seems to be able to adopt a balanced middle ground position. Teslas are not perfect, Elon Musk is not the Messiah and I don’t think some kid wearing his baseball cap backwards who is clearly a Tesla fanboy should be touted as the fount of all wisdom when it comes to investing. 

It does concern me that there is such a huge divide between the bulls and the bears. They can’t both be right and they can’t both be wrong. Opinion on Tesla is polarised  just like so many issues today, just like Brexit was. Why is that? Why is each side so convinced they are right? I am in the middle, just as I am on other issues discussed in this board, looking for answers and all I get is noise - hype and negativity - each side only able to hear their own voices, trapped in their tribes. Why can we discuss domestic batteries or solar panels amicably and sensibly but as soon as any major issue comes along such as Climate Change (or Brexit purely as an example) we get all defensive and retreat into our corners. Brexit and Climate Change I might understand as the issues there go right to the heart of what we have been taught and believe - but Tesla?

I posted the picture of the bodge fitting on the ModelY which Sandy Munro’s colleague described as a band aid but no one else on here reacted to that. I am sure all the regulars have seen it. We all are into electric cars but no one else appeared to have an opinion on that one way or the other. What does that say? Is everyone so pro Tesla they dismiss it as being fine or is everyone just afraid to express an opinion that might be considered anti EV?  A couple of you on here have said you are not in any gang, so what do you think? 

Maybe the vast majority of Teslas are bought by companies or leased and the driver just doesn’t care. Personally if I was a Tesla owner and found that I would be pretty peeved but as a shareholder it doesn’t bother me too much in the short term, as whether Tesla succeeds or fails depends on its batteries and autonomous driving. It is something that can be fixed and will be so why doesn’t Sandy Munro just wind back a little and say Tesla have some great tech but still need to sort out build issues? He talks as though they are the best engineering company in the world doing stuff other car and battery makers could not do. Maybe because he has got caught on one side of a tribal war where no one can give an inch. He says he gets hate mail.What is going on? Just why can’t we have sensible discussion anymore?

Hi Ken, rather than constantly trying to pick fights and disrupt threads, can't you just pop me on ignore, please.

You warned when starting this thread

“Disclaimer from the start, BEV news can easily become Tesla heavy, so posts, especially mine, might appear a bit 'fanboi' “

and that is how things are turning out. The more I read of yours the more convinced I become that you only want others to see one side of the story. A prime example was the Sandy Munro video of the battery day discussion. You chose to post an edited version of the discussion with the contribution from others deleted because it suited your agenda of maintaining the illusion that Tesla are the only game in town. You cannot bear to hear it said that others are catching up. 

That’s great for your own fanboys because they only want to hear the gospel according to St Mart and chant ‘praise be to Elon Musk’ but there is another side to the story. A lot of other EV manufacturers are developing very good cars and battery manufacturers developing new technology but in your world anyone who says this out loud has their comments deleted. 

You accuse me of disrupting this thread when I am just injecting balance while at the same time you are referring to content on the Alternative Green Energy Thread I started as “vile” and thanking and encouraging others to disrupt that thread. Hardly the actions of a saint.

Again Ken, please pop me on ignore rather than trying again to disrupt and spoil threads.

You will have noted that in all my video postings I explain that these are items I have found interesting (so me personally, and my opinion), I don't really expect anyone to watch them, but I just want to share with others in case they are of interest. It seems you watch my postings just so you can attack them, and me personally.

You seem upset about a video clearly marked as being Sandy Munro's comments only, that's because it is, and because I find his comments extremely informative. You don't have to watch that video, you don't have to watch anything I post, you could of course watch other videos, or fuller videos, that is entirely your choice, but you don't need to flood this thread with your vitriol when there is absolutely no need for you to read or watch anything I post.

You are unhappy that there are a lot of Tesla posts on a BEV thread, sorry you feel that way but there has been a lot of big Tesla news lately. Perhaps you might consider reducing the flood of Tesla criticism you have been posting, (shortly after I post anything) to help yourself with this issue.

Could you also please stop attacking others just because they don't agree with you, by linking them to me, or me to them, this seems like a very personal policy of yours, one that you will recall you were called out on previously when it was noted that you were commenting about me in all your posts, even though they had nothing to do with me. You were told by several posters that you were trolling me.

Please place me on ignore and stop spoiling all the threads for everyone else. Thank you.

Edit: Sorry Ken, I've now seen that you have thanked my post asking you to pop me on ignore, so I assume you agree and will be taking that action, or have already ....... in which case this edit is kinda unnecessary ...... hmmmm. Regardless, hopefully now peace will be restored.

EVandPV

JKenH said:

EVandPV said:

JKenH said:

When someone posts an article that you approve of why try and drag it down? All I can think of is you are trying to prove you’re one of the gang? 

I'm certainly not part of anyone's gang.

Of course not. Fanboy number 1

Who's getting desperate now ?? 
Seriously though, if your suggesting I'm a Tesla fanboi, your well off the mark.
I've posted before that while I admire what they're doing, I'm not keen on their cars and probably wouldn't buy one even if I could afford one.

JKenH

EVandPV said:

JKenH said:

EVandPV said:

JKenH said:

Interesting article on EVs in the Daily Mail. Will it be positive or negative?Just a shame only a couple of us will deign to read it and find out.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-8772669/We-reveal-quickly-batteries-electric-hybrid-cars-degrade.html

The usual hilarious comments by folk who have never even sat in an EV.
Particularly enjoyed the one referring to "Nicholas Teslar". 

Nothing in the article itself to complain about so you refer to the public comments? Poor show but when you are desperate you get desperate.  Ok, I understand the new rules now; I will be able to quote any old rubbish comment made on future posts from Team Mart as being the essence of the article. You’ve moved this to a whole new level. Is that really how you want to see this go?

Didn't actually have a problem with the article, the figures quoted sounded reasonable. 
But the standard of the comments are typical of folk in denial of climate change and don't have the first clue about EV's, many of whom shouldn't be aloud near a keyboard.
Some real knuckle-draggers in there too.
If comments like "takes 8 hours to charge 50 miles" and "I'm sticking with petrol, f*** the environment" are their typical reader base, it doesn't put the paper in a great light.
Sorry if I hit a nerve.

Normally I would have left it there as we have not had big disagreements in the past. However when everyone was jumping on the bandwagon following Mart’s giving out thanks for disrupting the AGE thread you piled in with a 😆 in response to a post referring to me as a “fossil fuel nutter.”

What followed your post above was out of character for me and intentionally so. I normally try and be polite when responding (which some may feel makes me a soft touch) but I get a lot of aggravation (quite a bit of it impolite as in the quote above) for putting forward perfectly reasonable articles and opinions (they just don’t comply with the consensus view but they are not “vile”) to inject some balance. I just felt it was time to let someone else see what it is like to receive a discourteous and unwarrantedly aggressive response even if it is only from one poster. Sorry it had to be you on the receiving end. Either you will now hate me for the rest of time or we will both agree that a more amicable style of engagement is preferable.

DiggerUK

The main reason cars with some sort of electric power (EV's) don't  sell is price. Even with all the incentives to purchase, they are just not in a price range that interests anybody. It's a bit like Apple and Calvin Klein, it's mainly a fashion and virtue signalling consumer snobbery agenda.

This is a money saving site, it is just crazy to encourage anyone to spend more than they need to on a product that can be obtained cheaper, be operated and maintained cheaper and simply get you from A2B. Fossil fuel cars win that war.

There are many design flaws with EV's, one of them is battery degradation. Nobody is making that claim up, it's a real issue, yet the EVangelicals just stick their fingers in their ears and deny it's real. It seems the major cost with EV maintenance is replacing those very expensive batteries..._

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

JKenH said:

Martyn1981 said:

The whole video is worth watching, but I tend to find reaction videos from Steven at Solving the Money Problem, are far more insightful than I am, picking up on a lot of issues that I fail to spot just listening as a punter.

Steven's short(er) reaction video (15mins)

Tesla Battery Day: Genius Engineering (w/Sandy Munro)

It’s taken me a while to get round to watching that. All I can say is you seem to have got caught up in the hype of the Tesla fanboys. Next time I want some investment advice maybe I should grab one of the local youths doing burn outs round the village in his Honda Civic and provided he is wearing his baseball cap the wrong way round ask him if he can pull a few funny faces, make some funny noises and  take the Micky out of investment analysts (if he knows any) and ask him if he has a mate who works on cars who can tell me which car company to invest in. Preferably his mate will have noticed when working on the cars whether any OEM parts were held on by a metal strap, a few off cuts of wood and gaffer tape before he tells me to invest in that car manufacturer.

Seriously though. I am invested in Tesla and a couple of weeks ago after the share price dropped 30% I did suggest on here that the shares were worth a punt. I am not therefore anti Tesla, I think what Tesla have achieved is amazing, the M3 is a great car and it deserves its No.1 position in the marketplace but I do worry about all the hype and the fact that no one seems to be able to adopt a balanced middle ground position. Teslas are not perfect, Elon Musk is not the Messiah and I don’t think some kid wearing his baseball cap backwards who is clearly a Tesla fanboy should be touted as the fount of all wisdom when it comes to investing. 

It does concern me that there is such a huge divide between the bulls and the bears. They can’t both be right and they can’t both be wrong. Opinion on Tesla is polarised  just like so many issues today, just like Brexit was. Why is that? Why is each side so convinced they are right? I am in the middle, just as I am on other issues discussed in this board, looking for answers and all I get is noise - hype and negativity - each side only able to hear their own voices, trapped in their tribes. Why can we discuss domestic batteries or solar panels amicably and sensibly but as soon as any major issue comes along such as Climate Change (or Brexit purely as an example) we get all defensive and retreat into our corners. Brexit and Climate Change I might understand as the issues there go right to the heart of what we have been taught and believe - but Tesla?

I posted the picture of the bodge fitting on the ModelY which Sandy Munro’s colleague described as a band aid but no one else on here reacted to that. I am sure all the regulars have seen it. We all are into electric cars but no one else appeared to have an opinion on that one way or the other. What does that say? Is everyone so pro Tesla they dismiss it as being fine or is everyone just afraid to express an opinion that might be considered anti EV?  A couple of you on here have said you are not in any gang, so what do you think? 

Maybe the vast majority of Teslas are bought by companies or leased and the driver just doesn’t care. Personally if I was a Tesla owner and found that I would be pretty peeved but as a shareholder it doesn’t bother me too much in the short term, as whether Tesla succeeds or fails depends on its batteries and autonomous driving. It is something that can be fixed and will be so why doesn’t Sandy Munro just wind back a little and say Tesla have some great tech but still need to sort out build issues? He talks as though they are the best engineering company in the world doing stuff other car and battery makers could not do. Maybe because he has got caught on one side of a tribal war where no one can give an inch. He says he gets hate mail.What is going on? Just why can’t we have sensible discussion anymore?

Hi Ken, rather than constantly trying to pick fights and disrupt threads, can't you just pop me on ignore, please.

You warned when starting this thread

“Disclaimer from the start, BEV news can easily become Tesla heavy, so posts, especially mine, might appear a bit 'fanboi' “

and that is how things are turning out. The more I read of yours the more convinced I become that you only want others to see one side of the story. A prime example was the Sandy Munro video of the battery day discussion. You chose to post an edited version of the discussion with the contribution from others deleted because it suited your agenda of maintaining the illusion that Tesla are the only game in town. You cannot bear to hear it said that others are catching up. 

That’s great for your own fanboys because they only want to hear the gospel according to St Mart and chant ‘praise be to Elon Musk’ but there is another side to the story. A lot of other EV manufacturers are developing very good cars and battery manufacturers developing new technology but in your world anyone who says this out loud has their comments deleted. 

You accuse me of disrupting this thread when I am just injecting balance while at the same time you are referring to content on the Alternative Green Energy Thread I started as “vile” and thanking and encouraging others to disrupt that thread. Hardly the actions of a saint.

Again Ken, please pop me on ignore rather than trying again to disrupt and spoil threads.

You will have noted that in all my video postings I explain that these are items I have found interesting (so me personally, and my opinion), I don't really expect anyone to watch them, but I just want to share with others in case they are of interest. It seems you watch my postings just so you can attack them, and me personally.

You seem upset about a video clearly marked as being Sandy Munro's comments only, that's because it is, and because I find his comments extremely informative. You don't have to watch that video, you don't have to watch anything I post, you could of course watch other videos, or fuller videos, that is entirely your choice, but you don't need to flood this thread with your vitriol when there is absolutely no need for you to read or watch anything I post.

You are unhappy that there are a lot of Tesla posts on a BEV thread, sorry you feel that way but there has been a lot of big Tesla news lately. Perhaps you might consider reducing the flood of Tesla criticism you have been posting, (shortly after I post anything) to help yourself with this issue.

Could you also please stop attacking others just because they don't agree with you, by linking them to me, or me to them, this seems like a very personal policy of yours, one that you will recall you were called out on previously when it was noted that you were commenting about me in all your posts, even though they had nothing to do with me. You were told by several posters that you were trolling me.

Please place me on ignore and stop spoiling all the threads for everyone else. Thank you.

Edit: Sorry Ken, I've now seen that you have thanked my post asking you to pop me on ignore, so I assume you agree and will be taking that action, or have already ....... in which case this edit is kinda unnecessary ...... hmmmm. Regardless, hopefully now peace will be restored.

Sorry Mart I don’t buy that. You are thanking other posters for trolling my AGE thread and encouraging them to “keep up the good work, guys”.

As for Tesla, I have no problem with the number of posts on the subject, it’s just that yours all seem to come from fanboy sources - very rarely is there anything objective.

JKenH

DiggerUK said:

The main reason cars with some sort of electric power (EV's) don't  sell is price. Even with all the incentives to purchase, they are just not in a price range that interests anybody. It's a bit like Apple and Calvin Klein, it's mainly a fashion and virtue signalling consumer snobbery agenda.

This is a money saving site, it is just crazy to encourage anyone to spend more than they need to on a product that can be obtained cheaper, be operated and maintained cheaper and simply get you from A2B. Fossil fuel cars win that war.

There are many design flaws with EV's, one of them is battery degradation. Nobody is making that claim up, it's a real issue, yet the EVangelicals just stick their fingers in their ears and deny it's real. It seems the major cost with EV maintenance is replacing those very expensive batteries..._

Sorry, I disagree with virtually all of that if you are talking about new cars. Secondhand fossil cars can be bought very cheaply and run on a tight budget If you don’t do many miles. 

New electric cars are getting very close to the price of fossil cars. I posted on here about the new MG5 estate which was in the region of £25k. The new Corsa EV was available in August for £21k and the MG ZS EV £19k. Take into account the fuel and road tax savings and you are probably better off leasing an EV than a fossil car. That is if your user profile fits it.

EVs don’t work for everyone but for a lot of people new EVs make more financial sense than a fossil car. 

Edit: oh, and you should have a drive in one - that will give you a different perspective.

JKenH

DiggerUK said:

The main reason cars with some sort of electric power (EV's) don't  sell is price. Even with all the incentives to purchase, they are just not in a price range that interests anybody. It's a bit like Apple and Calvin Klein, it's mainly a fashion and virtue signalling consumer snobbery agenda.

This is a money saving site, it is just crazy to encourage anyone to spend more than they need to on a product that can be obtained cheaper, be operated and maintained cheaper and simply get you from A2B. Fossil fuel cars win that war.

There are many design flaws with EV's, one of them is battery degradation. Nobody is making that claim up, it's a real issue, yet the EVangelicals just stick their fingers in their ears and deny it's real. It seems the major cost with EV maintenance is replacing those very expensive batteries..._

If you are worried about battery degradation have a read of this Daily Mail article which I published yesterday. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-8772669/We-reveal-quickly-batteries-electric-hybrid-cars-degrade.html

JKenH

EVandPV said:

JKenH said:

EVandPV said:

JKenH said:

When someone posts an article that you approve of why try and drag it down? All I can think of is you are trying to prove you’re one of the gang? 

I'm certainly not part of anyone's gang.

Of course not. Fanboy number 1

Seriously though, if your suggesting I'm a Tesla fanboi, your well off the mark.
I've posted before that while I admire what they're doing, I'm not keen on their cars and probably wouldn't buy one even if I could afford one.

No I didn’t suggest you were a Tesla fanboy. I saw what you posted last week. I’m probably more of a fan than you are. I’ve not driven one but from what I’ve read Tesla’s are still dynamically the best (affordable) EV cars out there, the M3 convincingly beating the Polestar in (I think it was) an Autocar back to back test.

I absolutely love my Leaf but am aware it has shortcomings. Fortunately the most complained about issue of battery cooling doesn’t affect me but for some it is a deal breaker. That’s how it will be with most cars (good points and bad points) and why there is a lot of room for other EVs than Tesla to succeed. We just haven’t had much choice (Tesla, Leaf Zoe) until recently but look at the cars coming to market now. Tesla won’t be able to sell cars much longer held together with offcuts of wood and gaffer tape. That’s not me being a Tesla hater it’s just a fact.