Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

JKenH

Martyn1981 said:

Sorry, another Tesla Battery Day post, but this time with thoughts from Sandy Munro who has been incredible reporting on the stripdowns they have done on Tesla's and the comparative tech that Tesla has v's the competition.

The whole video is worth watching, but I tend to find reaction videos from Steven at Solving the Money Problem, are far more insightful than I am, picking up on a lot of issues that I fail to spot just listening as a punter.

These vids may be of interest to anyone, but really for those who have invested in Tesla, as Sandy pretty much explains how the other companies should now be seriously worried. Annoyingly, I'd planned to buy into the dip yesterday, but forgot and when I rushed to buy 40 mins after opening the shares had already bounced ..... drats!!!

All of Sandy's bits (37mins)

Tesla Battery Day with Sandy Munro (and only Sandy Munro) - Autoline Exclusives edit

I am surprised (actually I’m not really) that this carefully edited YouTube Video has been posted rather than the full video. The reason is of course that one of the other contributors in the video is a battery expert and is a little more objective than Sandy Munro. Some people are so frightened of objectivity that they even find it necessary to edit a video to remove any comment other than from their preferred advocate (and other Tesla fanboys just lap it up - see the comments below the video).

However if you want a bit more balance watch the unedited version or for those of you who might not have the time just have a listen from 23.15 to 25.30 (that’s just 135 seconds for those of you who are so very busy) to get a different take.

Excerpts

John McElroy: Is Tesla really that much further ahead than everyone else?

Bob Galyen: No

and

Bob Galyen: is there a differentiator between technology that other companies are working on and Tesla? No.

https://youtu.be/jKrFAcNgG40

Martyn1981

And another great video on the Tesla Battery day, as this one comes from Undecided with Matt Ferrell, another great source of general RE and climate information, so fun to see a crossover (of my interests) on this occasion.

3 Takeaways from Tesla's Battery Day - Hint: it's not just batteries

JKenH

Sandy Munro does now seem to rave about Tesla’s engineering and design prowess and how Tesla have re-engineered one part 13 times. Have a look at his colleague’s comments on this band aid approach to engineering. This is how it left the factory!





https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-y-owners-have-found-home-depot-!!!!!!-used-to-1844999285

Martyn1981

And a quick update on the test rollout of the new Tesla batteries, and the large amount of work still ahead:

Tesla’s New Homemade Batteries Are In Test Cars On The Road Today

The Battery Day presentation left some people thinking Tesla was already producing a few of its homemade batteries for use in Tesla cars, left other people thinking Tesla was still far away from getting its own cells into cars, and left others thinking that Tesla was already pumping out 10 gigawatt-hours of batteries a year and stuffing them into new Tesla vehicles. What Elon Musk just clarified on Twitter is that Tesla’s new batteries are in fact in cars on the road today — well, actually, cars that have been on the road for the past several months. (Remember that Battery Day was supposed to occur several months ago.) While it’s not 100% clear whether these are just test vehicles or also some consumer vehicles, it seems to be implied (and only logical) that they are test vehicles still owned by Tesla.

The last line in that tweet also implies that the company is still far from mass production. Having prototype cells in cars is a minimal achievement in Elon’s eyes, compared to the challenge of high-volume production of those cells and getting them into thousands upon thousands of vehicles each month. It appears that because he sees the prototypes as “trivial,” that was not a highlight of the presentation.

michaels

Martyn1981 said:

And a quick update on the test rollout of the new Tesla batteries, and the large amount of work still ahead:

Tesla’s New Homemade Batteries Are In Test Cars On The Road Today

The Battery Day presentation left some people thinking Tesla was already producing a few of its homemade batteries for use in Tesla cars, left other people thinking Tesla was still far away from getting its own cells into cars, and left others thinking that Tesla was already pumping out 10 gigawatt-hours of batteries a year and stuffing them into new Tesla vehicles. What Elon Musk just clarified on Twitter is that Tesla’s new batteries are in fact in cars on the road today — well, actually, cars that have been on the road for the past several months. (Remember that Battery Day was supposed to occur several months ago.) While it’s not 100% clear whether these are just test vehicles or also some consumer vehicles, it seems to be implied (and only logical) that they are test vehicles still owned by Tesla.

The last line in that tweet also implies that the company is still far from mass production. Having prototype cells in cars is a minimal achievement in Elon’s eyes, compared to the challenge of high-volume production of those cells and getting them into thousands upon thousands of vehicles each month. It appears that because he sees the prototypes as “trivial,” that was not a highlight of the presentation.

You would certainly hope the cells were real world tested before going into mass production. All sorts of stresses happen in the real world that are hard to replicate in the lab. For example temperature changes, vibration and variable in and out loads all at the same time.  I also thought the new pack as frame architecture will put additional stresses on individual cells, do it once no problem, do it a million times on each journey and who knows what impact it might have on the microstructure of the cells.

More generally I don't understand the negativity. Just like with autonomy day Tesla put in the public domain their hoped for development path and don't shy from highlighting the difficulties ahead. Most companies just hide all this in house and issue bland market friendly press releases. Not for nothing a lot of emphasis is out on the scientists doing the research, I wonder if one of the big takeaways for Tesla is showcasing the jobs on offer and continuing to be the employer of choice for top graduates?

Martyn1981

Yep, they learnt their lesson with the TM3 rollout, where they gave their optimistic hoped for ramp up numbers, and then each time we found out they had done incredibly well, say 2,000 per week, we'd just get a flood of responses (typically on SeekingAlpha) from all the trolls, shorts and FUD'sters pointing out the target was 3,000 (by then), and the same say with 3,000 per week, when it 'should have been' 4,000 and so on. I suspect that's why they sandbag all the time now, such as the target date for rolling out the TMY was now (Fall (Autumn)) but they started supplies in Mch/Apr.

I'm also baffled by all the negativity, especially since Tesla's main goal is to accelerate the World's transition to sustainable energy, hence why they share a lot of knowledge, and keep reducing their prices as costs fall. But I guess haters gotta hate.

More boring vids I watch, but a great point made about a year ago, touching on what you've said (about graduates) was that for other companies to try to catch up, they will need the top brains, be it hardware or software engineers, and there is a finite supply of these, and many are already employed by Tesla. But I do have to point out you are completely wrong about Tesla being the top choice for graduates, they actually come in a poor second ......... bonus points* for the number one choice?  

*Or a free kitten! Shameless plug now, but there are a lot of homeless cats and kits at the rescue, and I assume at all animal shelters during these tough times. So if anyone can help with their local rescues, and maybe offer a furever home to an animal, then please do. Apologies for the digression.

JKenH

michaels said:

Martyn1981 said:

And a quick update on the test rollout of the new Tesla batteries, and the large amount of work still ahead:

Tesla’s New Homemade Batteries Are In Test Cars On The Road Today

The Battery Day presentation left some people thinking Tesla was already producing a few of its homemade batteries for use in Tesla cars, left other people thinking Tesla was still far away from getting its own cells into cars, and left others thinking that Tesla was already pumping out 10 gigawatt-hours of batteries a year and stuffing them into new Tesla vehicles. What Elon Musk just clarified on Twitter is that Tesla’s new batteries are in fact in cars on the road today — well, actually, cars that have been on the road for the past several months. (Remember that Battery Day was supposed to occur several months ago.) While it’s not 100% clear whether these are just test vehicles or also some consumer vehicles, it seems to be implied (and only logical) that they are test vehicles still owned by Tesla.

The last line in that tweet also implies that the company is still far from mass production. Having prototype cells in cars is a minimal achievement in Elon’s eyes, compared to the challenge of high-volume production of those cells and getting them into thousands upon thousands of vehicles each month. It appears that because he sees the prototypes as “trivial,” that was not a highlight of the presentation.

You would certainly hope the cells were real world tested before going into mass production. All sorts of stresses happen in the real world that are hard to replicate in the lab. For example temperature changes, vibration and variable in and out loads all at the same time.  I also thought the new pack as frame architecture will put additional stresses on individual cells, do it onceno problem, do it a million times on each journey and who knows what impact it might have on the microstructure of the cells.

More generally I don't understand the negativity. Just like with autonomy day Tesla put in the public domain there hoped for development path and don't shy from highlighting the difficulties ahead. Most companies just hide all this in house and issue bland market friendly press releases. Not for nothing a lot of emphasis is out on the scientists doing the research, I wonder if one of the big takeaways for Tesla is showcasing the jobs on offer and continuing to be the employer of choice for top graduates?

The negativity arises because Elon Musk makes promises that he can’t deliver. You mentioned Autonomy day (22nd April  2019). Weren’t we supposed to have FSD and robotaxis this year? 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/22/18510828/tesla-elon-musk-autonomy-day-investor-comments-self-driving-cars-predictions Here are some of the main takeaways from Tesla’s “autonomy day” event:
• Tesla unveiled a new microchip that Musk said was being included in every new Tesla produced today. He called “the best chip in the world… objectively.”
• It’s a high-performance, special-purpose chip built by Samsung in Texas, manufactured with autonomy and safety in mind.
• The company is about halfway through the design process for the next-generation chip, which Musk estimated would be about three times better than the current system.
• Musk estimated that by the middle of 2020, Tesla’s autonomous system will have improved to the point where drivers will not have to pay attention to the road.
• He said the company will roll out autonomous taxis next year in some parts of the US. The service will allow Tesla owners to add their cars to a Tesla network, which he said would be akin to Uber or Airbnb. 
• “We will have more than one million robotaxis on the road,” Musk said. “A year from now, we’ll have over a million cars with full self-driving, software... everything.”
• These cars will be Level 5 autonomy with no geofence, which is a fancy way of saying they will be capable of driving themselves anywhere on the planet, under all possible conditions, with no limitations. There are no cars on the road today that are Level 5. 
• Tesla robotaxis could generate owners up to $30,000 a year in profit, Musk predicted. 

Coastalwatch

michaels said:

Tesla’s New Homemade Batteries Are In Test Cars On The Road Today

You would certainly hope the cells were real world tested before going into mass production. All sorts of stresses happen in the real world that are hard to replicate in the lab. For example temperature changes, vibration and variable in and out loads all at the same time.

Interesting points raised there and while it may be difficult to replicate all the above in a combined real world application I do not believe it to be impossible.

In the industry I was involved in any new product would be subjected to all thee of the above disciplines individually and stressed to a far higher level than would be seen during its certified lifetime of twenty years.

While it doesn't make the product invincible it does give a fair degree of confidence in it's ability to cope with anything encounted in the real world.

Of course, that is providing all components are produced within specification and the subsequent processes and assembly are controlled to the degree required.

It's certainly not for the feint hearted.

JKenH

Interesting article on EVs in the Daily Mail. Will it be positive or negative?Just a shame only a couple of us will deign to read it and find out.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-8772669/We-reveal-quickly-batteries-electric-hybrid-cars-degrade.html

EVandPV

JKenH said:

Interesting article on EVs in the Daily Mail. Will it be positive or negative?Just a shame only a couple of us will deign to read it and find out.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-8772669/We-reveal-quickly-batteries-electric-hybrid-cars-degrade.html

The usual hilarious comments by folk who have never even sat in an EV.
Particularly enjoyed the one referring to "Nicholas Teslar".