Stupidly ignored parking charge notice- hearing today update

Coupon-mad

You are right that the Maritime Museum have proved USELESS but I feel the weight of complaints needs to be heavy so they get really annoyed with the PPC, and hopefully decide not to renew the contract.  So, COMPLAIN even though you know the answer will be unhelpful. 

Tell them the location is now known as a scam site, online, and their reviews have badly nosedived due to the scam they are allowing to operate, unfettered, in their car park.

Umkomaas

A single straw can ultimately break a camel's back. 🐫 

didgeridoooo

This new forum certainly isn't as easy on the eye, although the posts from the usual haunts are of course as pretty as always

Hi Cbay - got your PM and I will read up on the thread first then I will go digging for any documents/contracts in case they will help. I definitely do have a copy of the commercial contract between the Museum and PPL, but it's hardcopy. I have a photocopier so I could copy it all and post you it (along with all other evidence BWL supplied for their claim) , or I can take pics of any relevant pages, once I work out which pages might be useful. Back in a bit....

didgeridoooo

Regarding complaints, I am not sure what use this will be to you, but it's always worth doing these things because you never know what may happen, or who may read it and see reason to give you a break. I wrote to Matt Lee (Visitor Service Manager) to complain. Here is the response I received (not sure it's of any use, but your PM asked for any info which may help you so here it is)...

"I have been in touch with Premier Park Ltd regarding the PCN issued to you in December 2015.  They have confirmed that the reason for the issue of the PCN was due to a stay by your vehicle in November 2015 totalling 2 hours and 23 minutes, whilst there was a payment for the registration number for a stay of 2 hours.  Under these circumstances, Premier Park Ltd have not acted incorrectly.  There is very clear signage in Maritime Car Park with details of the necessary payments, along with clear instructions as to how the terms of parking can be met.  We offer both the ability to pay in cash at the machines or by telephone if there is no change available.

Did you contact Premier Park Ltd regarding this PCN?  They have their own appeals processes and also sign up to Parking on Private Land Appeals, the UK independent ombudsman for cases such as yours.

We carefully selected Premier Park Ltd to manage Maritime Car Park on our behalf as they are accredited members of the British Parking Association, the recognised UK authority in parking.  We do constantly review the performance of Premier Park Ltd to ensure that they do not act outside their contract and continue to operate in an acceptable fashion. 

If you have any further information that you would like me to consider regarding this PCN, please do not hesitate to forward it to me at this email address.

Regards

Matt Lee
Visitor Services Manager"

didgeridoooo

After BWL discontinued, I sent another complaint to Matt Lee, since he invited "further information" from me. I don't want to lengthen this thread needlessly with it, but I see we can attach files so I have attached it below in case you want to read it for any reason. It would be nice to believe that these complaints are racking up and influencing them, but I doubt that. Their contract shows a nice little deal for the museum. From my reading of it, it appears that PPL manage the car park, provide all machines etc etc. But the Museum get all proceeds from the ticket machines (possibly min. 90%), and PPL get all proceeds from PCNs. This explains their activities perfectly especially in our case where ANPR usage is NOT advertised as it should be (BPA CoP), but is used as the only evidence of "parking", which it is not evidence of that at all. That was the gist of our defence, although we had quite a few other points raised of course.

I can dig out the contract and all other disclosures from BWL, but before I do, are you sure it's going to be any use to you? I have read this thread and I am not sure I see a use for it. But it's yours if you need it, no probs. From my quick read through, and as a complete NOVICE here, I see you may just try to plead for a negotiated sum. I am not sure I would do that. Their reply to your offer was cheeky in my view when it said you 'admitted you failed to pay'. That would get my hackles up in a big way. You did not "admit" you "failed" to pay. You only admitted that you TRIED to pay, and the SYSTEM failed. That isn't THEIR fault, but it is not yours EITHER! On the other hand, it is 'your' fault you didn't reply to any letters, which definitely stands strongly against you in this and certainly could do in court. (I did the same by the way, ignored for years, acting on old info).

Without wanting to guide you, as I really am not qualified to at all, but I think I would just fight tooth and nail and pin myself to the idea that POFA (which is crucial as you were not driver) does NOT allow them to seek more than £100 at court, so I would be happy to risk paying that (plus court fees) in order to make them spend the money to turn up, and risk screwing things up in court as they so often do!! That's me, anyway. You do what you think is best, and if unsure, follow what the regulars here advise. (PS - Are you absolutely certain that they complied with POFA? I thought they did in my case, until some of the great eyes on here spotted no less than SEVEN failures!)

Footnote: Does it make me bad that the most memorable post in this thread was one which provided a vision of a 5'3" coupon mad strapping things on? I am going to seek professional help later today, just in case.

Cbay27

Excellent points thanks so much for responding so quickly. I will let you know if I need more info than what you have provided. I haven’t actually got a court claim through yet but know I will! I need to go and check the car park in question as I’m sure I have seen it is now pay on exit with barriers which may help my defence but I may have just imagined it! Need to thoroughly check for pofa, I would be defending as keeper not driver as I wasn’t driving that day and don’t plan on telling them who was. 

I have complained to the director of the museum but not heard anything, pretty sure they won’t be interested when they contact pp regarding my case as I ignored letters. I am hoping the new template re abuse of process from coupon mad will prevent it going to court. I have started on my defence already so it doesn’t stress me out too much!  I am only 4 foot 11 so will need to strap a bigger pair on  !!
thanks again! 

Coupon-mad

Footnote: Does it make me bad that the most memorable post in this thread was one which provided a vision of a 5'3" coupon mad strapping things on? I am going to seek professional help later today, just in case. 

I'll have you know I'm 5'4''!! 

Cbay27

Ok so here is my original PCN, I have no idea when I received it so unsure if it was sent with the 14 day period. Having looked through it regarding POFA I am thinking it complies and therefore they cannot claim more than £100 (this went up to 170 in debt collector letters). On the back it states how to contest the charge.
The only thing it doesn't include is this:
'State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when' 
However as this doesn't apply as there was no ticket on the vehicle I am thinking its not relevant?
Just wanted to double check with the experts! 

Coupon-mad

Yes, that bit doesn't matter.  And if it's dated within, say ten days of the event then it was deemed served in time.

Cbay27

Hi so I’ve been to the car park now and the signs are totally different as it’s now pay on exit but there’s no barriers you pay at the machine. Could this be good for my defence? I don’t have photos of signage before so hoping didgeridoooo does!