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Vehicle Incorrectly Seized
Comments
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Probably. I guess i’ll just go go Court explain the case to a judge and because it wasn’t actually my fault and god knows where it went wrong in the databases then i don’t get the points or the fine.Manxman_in_exile wrote: »That is correct and I should have added that. A court may consider it entirely reasonable for the police to rely on their database. It may further consider that it's not unreasonable for police not to place reliance on any documentation the driver has, as I understand that certificates have been known to be presented that relate to insurance which has been subsequently cancelled.
Whether that makes it OK to seize the car I don't know. In the circumstances, perhaps it was.0 -
Personally if I had a complaint I would go straight to the professional standards dept or the independent office for police conduct as they're to teo that can actually investigate the complaint.
Quicker to complain to the Chief Constable and the elected Police and Crime Commissioner. (They probably want to be re-elected).
Then take it further if necessary. (But again, this all assumes it can be established whether the police did anything "wrong".)0 -
No, documents aren't proof in themselves. There's lots of forged documents, as well as genuine documents from cancelled policies. The primary record is the MIB database - but, yes, it can take time for changes to propagate through.
The police should be forming a view of the likelihood of the MIB database being inaccurate. Within working hours, they can easily contact the insurer and ask. Outside working hours, that's obviously more difficult - so they have to go with gut feel.
They were faced with, I suspect, a double-whammy - a plate that didn't show as being valid on DVLA, and which wasn't showing as being insured. Then stir that with the car itself being highly conspicuous, in use late at night, with a young driver... You were legitimate and legal - but you can see why the police may have been sceptical. You think that ethnicity was key, I suspect it was actually the least important factor here, and that the same would happen to anybody or similar age and presentation from any other background. I'm sure you'll say that your roadside demeanour was impeccable when stopped, but it's a simple fact that the "attitude test" forms a very large part of how they'll deal with the incident.
Now imagine the headlines if they'd simply taken your claims at face value and let you drive off - only to then attend a serious collision later that night, and find that the car was actually on false plates and uninsured...
Frankly, I'm happy that they lean on the side of caution in such a small number of edge cases, even if it does bring substantial inconvenience in those cases.
No, if the drive produces insurance and it cannot be verified he should be given the benefit of the doubt.
The vehicle would in any case be registered and insured on the previous reg number.0 -
Manxman_in_exile wrote: »Quicker to complain to the Chief Constable and the elected Police and Crime Commissioner. (They probably want to be re-elected).
Then take it further if necessary. (But again, this all assumes it can be established whether the police did anything "wrong".)
It's not quicker, both will pass it to their professional standards department.0 -
It's not quicker, both will pass it to their professional standards department.
I thought you needed to complain to the local force before going to the IOPC? Local forces will refer serious complaints to the IOPC, but if you complain to the IOPC direct, don't they just refer it back to the local force in the first instance? Surely it's quicker to make an initial complaint locally?
https://policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints-and-appeals/make-complaint0 -
He doesn't however say when he got the plate, given he had thr log book it wasnt on the 11th.I have my logbook stating that the new plate was in force from 12/11/19 and a final report from Admiral proving the transfer of insurance and to the MIB was instant also on 12/11/19
I was pulled over 36 hours later on the 13/11/19DVLA approved and transferred it through to their system on the Saturday and I got pulled over on the Monday.
If it wasn’t 11pm and the police had the ability to call up DVLA it would’ve been resolved as DVLA had done everything on their side.WMP_as_quoted_in_the_Sun wrote:A spokesman for the West Midlands Police said: "The car was seized for having no insurance after a number plate on the vehicle was not registered on police systems at the time the driver was stopped.
I'm reading that as the change was done online on Tuesday 12th lunchtime, and the OP was pulled over at 11pm on Wednesday 13th. The V5C has come through in the post since then, showing an issue date of 12th.
IIRC the ANPR systems in police cars are downloaded locally and searched off-line, while DVLA batch-process changes overnight.0 -
Christ, I wouldn't be seen dead in those either. They just don't cut the mustard down the country club. Brogues are frowned upon. But feel free to cut about in your gangsta "crepes" kid.It’s hilarious because i can wear what i want and buy what i want and not have to actually listen to your judgement. Stick to your Nike Air Max’s. Idiot.
Got a degree but still got a lot to learn.0 -
But the law on which the police are relying (RTA 1988 s165A) allows them to seize a vehicle if an officer in uniform requires the driver to produce evidence of insurance, and the driver fails to do so. There is no mention of any database.No, documents aren't proof in themselves. There's lots of forged documents, as well as genuine documents from cancelled policies. The primary record is the MIB database - but, yes, it can take time for changes to propagate through.
According to the OP he was willing to produce such evidence, but the police refused to consider it.
On the face of it, the police had no power to seize the vehicle.0
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