Is education in the UK a scam ?

pinkshoes

Germany's STATE universities are free, but their private universities charge on a par with the UK.

Also, less than 25% of the German population attend university compared with nearly 50% in the uk. If they had the same percentage of people attend university then their free model would be unsustainable.

A bit like the UK used to be... (free tuition and good apprenticeships).

I’m all for going back to the old system with a much smaller percentage going to university, then bringing back the old polytechnics to offer vocational training.

motorguy

pinkshoes wrote: »

Germany's STATE universities are free, but their private universities charge on a par with the UK.

Also, less than 25% of the German population attend university compared with nearly 50% in the uk. If they had the same percentage of people attend university then their free model would be unsustainable.

A bit like the UK used to be... (free tuition and good apprenticeships).

I’m all for going back to the old system with a much smaller percentage going to university, then bringing back the old polytechnics to offer vocational training.

Therein lies / lay the problem. It had got to the point whereby going on to University - and often some useless course - had become the norm with no job hopes at the end of it.

LilElvis

justcamehere5 wrote: »

Don't hesitate at all, I certainly was not bright enough to figure out that England's system is absolute garbage and given these "inequalities" occur where someone comes out 30k on top of someone like that the people governing education certainly are NOT bright.

Surely, it will get better if Corbyn comes into power and try to tax to me to death. No worries, will be in Singapore and will make ZERO payments on this loan.

You clearly haven't done your research - leaving the country to work overseas doesn't exempt you from payment. Singapore is on the list for repayments for both student loan plans.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/overseas-earnings-thresholds-for-plan-1-student-loans

motorguy

LilElvis wrote: »

You clearly haven't done your research - leaving the country to work overseas doesn't exempt you from payment. Singapore is on the list for repayments for both student loan plans.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/overseas-earnings-thresholds-for-plan-1-student-loans

On so many things....

spadoosh

Ive always thought the best shouldnt pay. So would go for something like the top 25-50% (academically) of uni applicants have their tuition paid with a means tested loan available for everyone else.

IIRC even the current rate of tuition is heavily subsidised. So scrap any subsidies associated and just means test the loan for true tuition cost. Tax payer covers the cost of the brightest (attach conditions, ie moving abroad will result in full repayment of costs etc) for greater benefit to the taxpayer.

Voyager2002

justcamehere5 wrote: »

But all of the things you mentioned are the same in Germany and the Netherlands.

Indeed. Those two countries are among the very best in the world. The UK is not in the same league, but overall is not bad. Things are far worse in most other countries.

I would be delighted if you could work to make Britain more like the countries you admire, and free university education would be among my priorities for this. As others have mentioned, the way to effect this kind of change is through the political process, not by stealing from the country that has done a lot for you. A good starting point would be to look carefully at what Labour promises to do, if elected, and act on that information.

justcamehere5

motorguy wrote: »

round cherry picking the best features of any particular economy, ignoring all the issues and downsides to that particular economy, and bleat on about it not being the same here.

Of course, some things are better here, worse there etc.

The problem is when employers here in the City and the UK don't favour fresh native grads from top universities here and allow someone to be able to literally carve out a path that cherry-picks the good stuff from several - get education from somewhere like Germany then come to work in London at what appears to be a lower tax rate (yes, I won't ignore those previous posts, fair game).

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

They probably studied PPE at Oxbridge - an example of a degree that combines three pointless academic subjects and is only fit for training people to enter politics - because they'd be too useless in any other walk of life.
Thank god for chemical engineers! Wonder if there are many of them in politics?

I agree with your statement about Mickey Mouse degrees and how many people end up with nothing of value.

I did not do Economics of course, lol. Let alone any other humanities garbage.

Tbh, I am glad someone else thinks the same and this post was good to read.

Voyager2002 wrote: »

Indeed. Those two countries are among the very best in the world. The UK is not in the same league, but overall is not bad. Things are far worse in most other countries.
.

The UK is very on par with them on most things. What are you even talking about?

Beartricks

I can kind of sympathise with the OP, although I think he could articulate himself better.


I think there's possibly an ethical and legal case to be made against convincing 17 year olds to take out £30,000 loans to buy in to the advertising campaigns of universities. I know it's not a loan in the traditional sense of the word, but it is a loan in name so evidently someone wants you to believe it is one.



I worked in education for several years, and the financial side of it focuses on bums on seats. The more bums on seats, the more money you can draw from various funding sources (government grants, tuition fees etc) and the more money you have to pay your employees and reinvest in to your schools.



Inevitably this lead to drawing funding down for useless courses. It seems to work similarly at university. There are thousands of courses with very few employment prospects; now I'm aware that education isn't always undertaken as a means towards employment, but universities base their entire advertising strategy on it particularly when it comes to recruiting 17 and 18 year olds who's education up to that point is focused on what they want to do with their lives. When I went to uni, there was not one classmate of mine that started the course thinking they were going to finish their degree then go on to do something completely different. Some had changed their minds by the end, and most are working in different fields now.



I think it is entirely wrong that a university can charge £9,000 a year for a course that almost guarantees a job such as medicine or engineering, and that requires suites of expensive and up to date equipment (MRI scanners, aviation simulators, my uni had a reinforced room for controlled explosions) and charge the same amount for a course that requires a small room off campus, a few teachers and a photocopier for handouts. But of course universities are going to ask for the highest amount across the board. Why wouldn't they?



I'm not sure what the solution is despite my rant. I would possibly support a narrowing down of the education system, or a move away from useless degrees that you can learn on YouTube (I should know, I've got one) and towards more vocational work integrated within the industries that they're supposed to be supplying with workers.

Silvertabby

Beartricks wrote: »

I think it is entirely wrong that a university can charge £9,000 a year for a course that almost guarantees a job such as medicine or engineering, and that requires suites of expensive and up to date equipment (MRI scanners, aviation simulators, my uni had a reinforced room for controlled explosions) and charge the same amount for a course that requires a small room off campus, a few teachers and a photocopier for handouts. But of course universities are going to ask for the highest amount across the board. Why wouldn't they?

Is it because a medical degree, for example, costs considerably more than £9K a year - and so has to be subsidised by the micky mousers?

Potbellypig

Imagine if Mummy and Daddy hadn't paid your way through University too.